Exar Kun vs. Mace Windu

Started by AncientPower9 pages
After his epiphany inside the temple of Exar Kun, Kyp had emerged stronger, able to accept the challenge. If he could face this final test, Luke would know that Kyp had passed through the fire of his testing-tempered by forces as dire and powerful as those Luke himself had endured.
- Jedi Academy: Champions of the Force

About as objective as it can get.

Then there's I, Jedi:

When we had met before I had felt power in him, but now, after his experiences with the Emperor Reborn, his power had been redoubled. Physically he looked a bit haggard and worn, with the flesh around his eyes having tightened and wrinkles appearing at their corners. I knew we were the same age chronologically, but in experience he far surpassed me.
The pure arrogance and stupidity of those ideas slammed hard into me. Luke Skywalker had dealt with Darth Vader and the Emperor, even the Emperor Reborn. If they weren't monsters, monsters didn't exist. Master Skywalker was more than capable of dealing with them, which made his condition now that much more stunning and terrifying.
The despair in her voice found an ally in the fear writhing into my belly. It had never seemed odd to me that Kyp had been able to slam me into a wall because he had always been more powerful than me. Even when I felt the other presence reinforcing him and got hammered by the combination of them, I never imagined that they could be more powerful than Luke Skywalker. I had even rationalized away the dark man's ability to avoid detection as his being talented in that area, just as I was talented in the area of image projection.

Not only does Corran Horn know how powerful Luke is, in fact he makes it clearer than ever that he's more powerful than he'd ever been. (Something Jedi Academy has echoed.) Corran also confirms that he couldn't imagine anyone being more powerful than Luke. Going as far as to attempt to rationalise that Kun blocking the Force senses of every single Jedi in the academy, including Luke's, as something he just had an affinity for. As opposed to the alternative. Yet he then accepts that they were just more powerful than him. Leading him to the conclusion:

We were up against something more powerful than I'd ever cared to imagine existing.

It's all very clear, and even if you factor in later quotes, Kun's standing here is only subject to scaling adapted from later sources, not direct retcons. As per Chee, a retcon is the last resort when something cannot be resolved. This can be. Kun is in general a Sheev tier heavyweight.

So no proof, then? Very good.

A disappointment as usual AP.

Cognitive dissonance much.

Who cares about neophyte Horn's opinions?

Lmao.

There's literally an entire trilogy supporting his claims. 😂

If we're going by accolades, that one accolade by Lucas that says "you need to be Windu or Yoda to compete with the Emperor" before that the full quote says Windu was winning against Palpatine, but Palpatine over exaggerated his defeat to get Anakin on his side. Lucas also says in the rots commentary Windu overpowered Palps. What do you guys make of that?

Lucas' word that was not. It was Gillard's.

With I, Jedi Exar Kun>Palpatine. Well done, AP.

I, Jedi being the perspective of Corran Horn, someone who has never faced Palpatine.

Exar Kun statements only get more powerful when the guy saying it has never met or even heard of the guy Kun's getting compared to.

Ancient sith magic

Doesn't I, Jedi have Mara Jade meet Kuns spirit and saying how if Vader met him he'd find Kun quaint while Palpatine would outright see Kun as a total failure?

Yes, actually:

"'Is that the best you've got'?' The tone of the voice had enough edge to etch transparisteel and would have flensed me alive, but I knew it wasn't directed at me. Through tear-clouded eyes I looked up and saw Mara Jade sauntering into the temple. 'Babies crying and ghosts whispering lies from beyond the grave? The Dark Lord of the Sith I knew would have been ashamed to use such tactics.'

'What?" Exar Kun's voice roared, as if in volume and intensity it could batter her down. "Who dares?'

'Who cares, more correctly.' She pointed at me. 'Horn here has been worked over by the Empire's best and never broke. Isard would have had you digitized, analyzed and discarded without a second thought, and she wasn't even Force-sensitive. Darth Vader would have found you amusingly quaint, and the Emperor . . . well . . .' Mara Jade's eyes flashed mercilessly. 'The Emperor succeeded in destroying the Jedi, so he'd see you as the very definition of failure!'"
-- I, Jedi

So, someone who actually met and knows Sheev and Vader seems to think Exar isn't up to stack with them, whereas someone who has never directly faced them has Exar somewhere on their level? Which quote is more trustworthy?

Welp there you have it. Ik that the argument is Mara was just trying to piss Kun off but still. Although, Luke still says Kun is one of the greatest ds sources hes sensed but I digress.

Yes, Mara was just trying to piss off Kun.

Luke's thoughts on Kun are more reliable imo.

Originally posted by MythLord
I, Jedi being the perspective of Corran Horn, someone who has never faced Palpatine.

Vader hasn't met the ancient Lords. And yet people take his words for granted.

Originally posted by MythLord
Yes, actually:

"'Is that the best you've got'?' The tone of the voice had enough edge to etch transparisteel and would have flensed me alive, but I knew it wasn't directed at me. Through tear-clouded eyes I looked up and saw Mara Jade sauntering into the temple. 'Babies crying and ghosts whispering lies from beyond the grave? The Dark Lord of the Sith I knew would have been ashamed to use such tactics.'

'What?" Exar Kun's voice roared, as if in volume and intensity it could batter her down. "Who dares?'

'Who cares, more correctly.' She pointed at me. 'Horn here has been worked over by the Empire's best and never broke. Isard would have had you digitized, analyzed and discarded without a second thought, and she wasn't even Force-sensitive. Darth Vader would have found you amusingly quaint, and the Emperor . . . well . . .' Mara Jade's eyes flashed mercilessly. 'The Emperor succeeded in destroying the Jedi, so he'd see you as the very definition of failure!'"
-- I, Jedi

So, someone who actually met and knows Sheev and Vader seems to think Exar isn't up to stack with them, whereas someone who has never directly faced them has Exar somewhere on their level? Which quote is more trustworthy?

1. That's Dun Moch.
2. Exar Kun was a weakling spirit. There you go.

Originally posted by Freedon Nadd
2. Exar Kun was a weakling. There you go.
fixed

Originally posted by Freedon Nadd
Vader hasn't met the ancient Lords. And yet people take his words for granted.

I don't care what people do; subjective opinions of characters should be taken with a grain of salt, especially in this case because Horn has little to no knowledge of what he's talking about.

Originally posted by Freedon Nadd
2. Exar Kun is a weakling. There you go.

Yes, yes he is.