It is interesting that the Superman vs. Hal tussle was under the same writer as the Hal vs. Zod, and both featured the 'new' Hal with his new ring.
Trying to be objective, there are some clues to the writer's intent that are being overlooked. When Superman fought Hal, Hal was under Hammond's influence. The writer even has Superman say that he'd hate to see how hard the ring would hit if Hal was in his right mind. On the other hand, Superman is clearly not going all out either. But it's interesting that the writer put in that comment about Hal not bringing his full A game.
Against Zod, there are also some weird comments. Someone says that Zod under two suns is "Superman-level", though Zod makes it clear that the twin Suns amp him beyond normal one-sun levels. Isn't Zod normally Superman level? Was this just a throwaway comment that doesn't mean anything? Is 'level' meant to be taken very loosely?
Also, Kryptonians are presented as being beyond your average GL 1 on 1, at least that is the what seems to be implied. Even when Hal is gonna go against Zod, the sense you get initially is that this is an uphill climb for Jordan. And then Jordan makes a comment about air battles being 360 degrees, suggesting that maybe Hal is outskilling Zod more than he is more powerful. One even gets the sense from the fight that perhaps Zod is favored, but Hal won an underdog victory.
Still, the power ring is IMO the ultimate dynamic power device in a sense. Since it's based on willpower, I get the feeling that GL power fluctuates more than the power level of normal heroes, and that any GL is more likely to be able to punch out his weight (maybe far out of his weight) than a normal hero because of the dynamism intrinsic to GL rings.
Finally, some posters have suggested that Zod may have planned to lose--I guess we'll see about that.
At any rate, this is just one writer's opinion, and thus it is far from definitive. Still, it's interesting to try to figure out how that writer feels about GLs vs. Kryptonians in general, and Hal vs. Zod in particular.
Originally posted by Pillow Biter
It is interesting that the Superman vs. Hal tussle was under the same writer as the Hal vs. Zod, and both featured the 'new' Hal with his new ring.Trying to be objective, there are some clues to the writer's intent that are being overlooked. When Superman fought Hal, Hal was under Hammond's influence. The writer even has Superman say that he'd hate to see how hard the ring would hit if Hal was in his right mind. On the other hand, Superman is clearly not going all out either. But it's interesting that the writer put in that comment about Hal not bringing his full A game.
Against Zod, there are also some weird comments. Someone says that Zod under two suns is "Superman-level", though Zod makes it clear that the twin Suns amp him beyond normal one-sun levels. Isn't Zod normally Superman level? Was this just a throwaway comment that doesn't mean anything? Is 'level' meant to be taken very loosely?
Also, Kryptonians are presented as being beyond your average GL 1 on 1, at least that is the what seems to be implied. Even when Hal is gonna go against Zod, the sense you get initially is that this is an uphill climb for Jordan. And then Jordan makes a comment about air battles being 360 degrees, suggesting that maybe Hal is outskilling Zod more than he is more powerful. One even gets the sense from the fight that perhaps Zod is favored, but Hal won an underdog victory.
Still, the power ring is IMO the ultimate dynamic power device in a sense. Since it's based on willpower, I get the feeling that GL power fluctuates more than the power level of normal heroes, and that any GL is more likely to be able to punch out his weight (maybe far out of his weight) than a normal hero because of the dynamism intrinsic to GL rings.
Finally, some posters have suggested that Zod may have planned to lose--I guess we'll see about that.
At any rate, this is just one writer's opinion, and thus it is far from definitive. Still, it's interesting to try to figure out how that writer feels about GLs vs. Kryptonians in general, and Hal vs. Zod in particular.
In the Superman/Hal confrontation, Hal was seeing Superman as Parallax, so I'd wager he was more 'motivated' than usual. The writer had Superman give some lip-service with that line about "I'd hate to see how hard you hit in your right mind" but, at the same time, it came right after Superman hit him so hard he checked if he had a concussion and rattled him so hard he was snapped out of Hammond's control. This was after his heat vision overpowered his ring in a direct 'beam contest'. It's not a clean win, but as close as you can get all things considered.
As for the 'level under two suns' part, I'd wager the writer took into consideration that Superman is more powerful than Zod under normal circumstances [more time under the sun, better with his powers and such], so that's why he leveled up the field of play, to make it clear the two suns close the gap. I don't see why level should be taken very loosely - unless we take two suns as loosely the same as a normal sun. Saying they're Superman level was said as a direct consequence of them being under two suns, so the correlation is quite clear. The line would make no sense if both under one sun and under two he'd be Superman level. Under this writer, the implication is clear. Others might not have Zod need two suns [or just hand-waved it, and assume that the two suns extended exposure raised Zod's level to Superman, and move on to both of them under a single sun].
Kryptonians are definitely portrayed as above a Green Lantern. Zod roflstomped Kyle [twice, the second time amped by Hal's will], and the other Green Lanterns en-masse didn't fare any better. Last issue they were all toying with the GLs and Faora directly overpowered multiple lanterns trying to restrain her once 'she had enough'. There is maybe a subtext that it wasn't in Zod's best interest to beat Hal, given his plan was to make the Guardians back off, but I don't think he was faking being KO/incapacitated. Maybe he didn't try as hard to win, but even so, it proves Hal can, like I said, KO/incapacitate Superman-level beings.
edit:
Also, check out Superman vs Zod/his son/Faora in the latest Action Comics arc with booster, to see how Superman compares with an even OLDER Zod + his family, who have spend decades under the two suns. Let's say it's not unfavorably..
Hal was also amped by Kyle's will.
And it's been well established will stacks well beyond the sum of its parts. As far back as Guy Gardners series, when he had the Sinestro ring, and joining his will with a green lantern allowed the two of them to catch up with a ship going at warp speeds neither could catch alone.
Originally posted by Pillow Biter
It is interesting that the Superman vs. Hal tussle was under the same writer as the Hal vs. Zod, and both featured the 'new' Hal with his new ring.Trying to be objective, there are some clues to the writer's intent that are being overlooked. When Superman fought Hal, Hal was under Hammond's influence. The writer even has Superman say that he'd hate to see how hard the ring would hit if Hal was in his right mind. On the other hand, Superman is clearly not going all out either. But it's interesting that the writer put in that comment about Hal not bringing his full A game.
Against Zod, there are also some weird comments. Someone says that Zod under two suns is "Superman-level", though Zod makes it clear that the twin Suns amp him beyond normal one-sun levels. Isn't Zod normally Superman level? Was this just a throwaway comment that doesn't mean anything? Is 'level' meant to be taken very loosely?
Also, Kryptonians are presented as being beyond your average GL 1 on 1, at least that is the what seems to be implied. Even when Hal is gonna go against Zod, the sense you get initially is that this is an uphill climb for Jordan. And then Jordan makes a comment about air battles being 360 degrees, suggesting that maybe Hal is outskilling Zod more than he is more powerful. One even gets the sense from the fight that perhaps Zod is favored, but Hal won an underdog victory.
Still, the power ring is IMO the ultimate dynamic power device in a sense. Since it's based on willpower, I get the feeling that GL power fluctuates more than the power level of normal heroes, and that any GL is more likely to be able to punch out his weight (maybe far out of his weight) than a normal hero because of the dynamism intrinsic to GL rings.
Finally, some posters have suggested that Zod may have planned to lose--I guess we'll see about that.
At any rate, this is just one writer's opinion, and thus it is far from definitive. Still, it's interesting to try to figure out how that writer feels about GLs vs. Kryptonians in general, and Hal vs. Zod in particular.
So no, he wasn't using any less power than usual.
Hahaha, Superman notes that Hal Jordan isn't his normal self and would not be hitting as hard as normal.
The same two idiots in this thread bombard every other thread about how Superman under mental influence or mind control (Ivy vs. Batman's whistle, Lord vs. Wonder Woman SPECIFICALLY because he was seeing Doomsday. Sound familiar?) isn't operating at peak performance.
Maybe, just maybe, Hal Jordan would be approaching a fight against Superman differently than Parallax. Regardless, mind control/illusion etc. can be a useful barometer to some extent but it is at best supplementary evidence as it gives the writer a lot more wiggle room.
Originally posted by abhilegend
In the very next issue, Hal can use his will even though he was in total illusion.So no, he wasn't using any less power than usual.
Shit like this is brilliant. Because Hal Jordan USING his ring = Hal Jordan at peak efficiency.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Hahaha, Superman notes that Hal Jordan isn't his normal self and would not be hitting as hard as normal.The same two idiots in this thread bombard every other thread about how Superman under mental influence or mind control (Ivy vs. Batman's whistle, Lord vs. Wonder Woman SPECIFICALLY because he was seeing Doomsday. Sound familiar?) isn't operating at peak performance.
Maybe, just maybe, Hal Jordan would be approaching a fight against Superman differently than Parallax. Regardless, mind control/illusion etc. can be a useful barometer to some extent but it is at best supplementary evidence as it gives the writer a lot more wiggle room.
Shit like this is brilliant. Because Hal Jordan USING his ring = Hal Jordan at peak efficiency.
Hypocrites.
Originally posted by leonidasThe gap between Hal and the other lanterns is getting, frankly, ridiculous.
hal can certainly beat him, but he wouldn't take a majority, not yet. him and ww are both moving up the ladder though it seems, to the point where i wouldn't be shocked if either beat him. /shrug
Zod was casually plowing through Kyle [who had both his will power + Hal's ring [i.e. willpower]].
Faora was taking on Kilowog + multiple other lanterns at once and beating them.
Then Hal comes and beats Zod alone.
Originally posted by leonidasThey really want to hammer it down that Hal is the greatest. I don't think it's that Guy/Kyle/John are weaker, they've always had problems against kryptonians. It's that Hal has became that powerful. His willpower has been compared to the central power battery, for christ's sake, which is absurd.
not sure how i feel about that, tbh. i really like kyle and guy but it feels more and more like they are nothing more than supporting characters when both have proven in the past they should have evolved beyond that role. 🙁
Remember when people used to argue Hal is weak against this type of fighters, despite proof to the contrary, and his showings against Krona/Nekron etc. were not relevant to fights against "flying bricks"? Good times. Their mouth has a certain shit smell right about now.
The flying brick argument has always been stupid.
There is nothing special about brick fists, they apply force just as anything else.
You know, like supernovas and black holes and such; things that lantern constructs have easily withstood.
Its just the bricks they often come across are just that damn strong.
