Originally posted by McP
In EU/Legends Vader's, I'll call it a "neutral TK showings" are superior to Dooku's, indeed. But Dooku's TK showings vs other Force users are also far superior to Vader's, who, in fact, was never able to overhelm at least a decent enemy with his Force TK as I remember. + some statements that was just a shadow of his former self blablabla
Legends Dooku, Mace, Maul, Kenobi before ANH > Vader tbh.
In Canon, he won the first round against Rebels Ashoka (a peer of Rebels Maul), via a TK attack.
In Legends he has ragdolled Starkiller.
Plus His feats on inanimate objects in both Legends and Canon EU are amongst the best in the saga.
So combine that with the fact that Dooku has been choked/ragdolled by an enraged Savage, and casually choked by Sidious from light years away, I think its clear that if either of these 2 are going to win via TK, its Vader. Theres simply no way it will go the other way around.
Post Prime Maul isnt much different to Prime Maul tbh. Except he can be more clumsy due to being highly frustrated by that point in his life.
Ashoka is a clumsy free version. IOW A near equal of Prime Maul. And Vader DID bypass her Force barrier by TKing her with a Force slam.
With Starkiller their TK was pretty equal, neither able to overpower the other. That in itself states volumes. And according to Witwer, that was Vader massively holding back.
In Canon his TK feats are absolutely ridiculous. Disney is clearly hyping up Vader as the next biggest bad ass after Palpatine.
I mean chopping up X-Wings mid flight, and literally redirecting shot torpedos.
Ventress really? Shes been compared to Inquisitors. The same Inquisitors which Ashoka could stomp 2 of them, and Maul hold his own against 3.
Post Prime Maul isnt much different to Prime Maul tbh. Except he can be more clumsy due to being highly frustrated by that point in his life.
Ashoka is a clumsy free version. IOW A near equal of Prime Maul. And Vader DID bypass her Force barrier by TKing her with a Force slam.
With Starkiller their TK was pretty equal, neither able to overpower the other. That in itself states volumes. And according to Witwer, that was Vader massively holding back.
In Canon his TK feats are absolutely ridiculous. Disney is clearly hyping up Vader as the next biggest bad ass after Palpatine.
I mean chopping up X-Wings mid flight, and literally redirecting shot torpedos.
Ventress really? Shes been compared to Inquisitors. The same Inquisitors which Ashoka could stomp 2 of them, and Maul hold his own against 3.
Originally posted by xPRIMExDue to Dooku being a cuck. I would venture to bet Dooku had an erection at the time of Sheevs betrayal. When he said, Do it, blood rushed into Dookus penis cutting off his ability to preserve his life.
Palpatine also views Vader as a threat. I don't believe he ever saw Dooku as one. I'll post the quote(s) for this later today since I have to leave for work right now. I believe there's a couple of them.
Originally posted by RealistRacism
Highly frustrated because he accomplished nothing and still has trouble with Padawans? Quite telling.
What Padawans? Lol
Originally posted by RealistRacismIf Vader truly is second only to the Emperor, he should be able to throw Ahsoka around like a ragdoll. Neither her nor Maul have any force defense feats in canon that put them above Barriss Offee, so it should be game, set, & match within seconds for someone with a reputation as pristine as Vader's... oh wait
Urm, 2nd baddest villain to Sidious. So why should he be casually ragdolling Rebels Ashoka who is likely TCW/ROTS Kenobi level?
Ah okay, so if in doubt put Force defences of highly skilled and powerful Force users on par with a Padawan like Barriss Offee. Makes sense.
You do realise all the Inquisitors are former Jedi right? And Maul was ragdolling them. Hes also force smacked Kenobi around in the past and scales above Opress who has Force smacked Council Masters around.
Originally posted by RealistRacism
Witwer also states the game is heavily exaggerated, and basically everything in TFU either didn't really happen, or should be scaled down tenfold. So those feats amount to nothing 👆
In the context of canon thats true. However for Legends (where almost everything is exaggerated), those feats are total legit.
I have been pointing out how highly Vader scales in both Legends and Canon. So I refer to Rebels and Marvel comics for Canon, and to TFU and Dark Horse comics for Legends.
TCW counts as both Legends and Canon.
Originally posted by RealistRacism
Vader's feats aren't even close to Ommin level.Yeah this isn't really impressive.
He also crushed an AT-AT with TK whilst it was trying to stamp on him.
By all means, let me know which TK Feats you think are impressive in Canon and lets compare.
Originally posted by RealistRacismWith an off-hand comment by Filoni being your only piece of 'evidence.' Ventress is demonstrably better, in every way, and Filoni even admits that she's more powerful than the best of the Inquisitors. However, unsurprisingly, we do get a contradictory message in him noting that the Grand Inquisitor would be "a lot harder pressed" against a Council member. So you can't in good faith claim that the Inquisitors as whole are on her level, when the GI who's supposed to be the best of the bunch, isn't even low Council-level. We've seen Asajj contend and defeat some of the best on the Council before her prime, so this is Filoni being dumb/doing damage control for his terrible, cartoonish villains in his horrific kid's show 👆
Given these are 2 different time periods Director commentary may be our best way to powerscale between them.
Nobody asked Filoni to compare to Ventress, he brought up that comparison himself.
Filoni clearly rates Council Members highly. That doesnt contradict anything. He had Ventress have trouble against a non- Council Master in Luminara.
Pretty sure 7th sister was close to GI. She was hyped as being the best, and she was ragdolled by Maul 😬
Dont forget all Inquisitors are former Jedi 😉
Originally posted by TenebrousWay
Dooku performed better in sabers against a stronger opponent than Vader.He curbslaughters.
Yoda isn't>Vader when his equal [Pre suit Vader] is stated by 7 different sources to be inferior to a pre prime Vader, not to mention Pre Suit Vader stomped Dooku, and Dooku never held his own against Yoda.
Originally posted by TenebrousWay
Dooku performed better in sabers against a stronger opponent than Vader.
Performed better than who/what?
Is just fighting Yoda a feat now? Well tbf I guess it is if we are comparing him to Kit Fisto or Plo Koon, but he needs more than getting into a fight when comparing to Vader.
Lucas suggests Luke's potential to be similar to Anakin's
The Anakin that fought Dooku is much more trained and learned in the ways of the Force than the Luke that fought Vader.
So, Anakin@Invisible Hand >> Luke@2nd Death Star
Ergo, Dooku >/>> Vader in effective combat terms.
QED
Deal with it. Suit Vader is TCW Obi Wan tier in terms of combat effectiveness - and that's being generous. Ziggy might be right saying he's Ventress level. Dooku could probably solo two Vaders.