ROTS Dooku vs. ESB Vader.

Originally posted by deathslash
I know that the vast majority of what you say is pure trolling, but for anyone that's actually wondering, I'll say this:

1. RotS Anakin beat the brakes off of Dooku when he began raging out.

2. Vader has no problem with letting his rage fuel him and has way more experience.

3. Dooku isn't taking a force fight. He just isn't. Dooku got choked out by Sheev while Vader managed to actually ragdoll the old man. That's just one of many superior force feats/comparisons. Once we get into statements of power, it becomes clear that Vader is superior.

4. In an all out fight, Vader has superior force power, actual armor, and comparable skill back up by superior force augmentations.

Originally posted by quanchi112
I am on my way out the door for a run. Oh I cannot wait to eviscerate these points later. Stay tuned.

No one can handle the deathslash. He's only at breaktheskinslash levels too.

@deathslash

Dooku was smart enough, to knew what is coming for resisting. Vader had to learn that. In a quite humiliating way tbh.

Never had never ragdoll Sheev. To be honest, there is a suggestion that even someone far weaker then Sidious could catch him off guard. It was Maul, in a deleted scene from their fight. And since I heard years ago, that this scene cannot be treat a canon one, it simply shows a TCW's and canon's mechanics: when Sidious focused himself on attaking Maul and Savage with FL, he lowered his guard a little bit. Just like Anakin and Obi-Wan lowered their guards in Ventress' presence, just like Dooku and Ventress lowered their guards against Savage, when they focused on each others.
And yet, Maul was supposed to do that at least in battle. Unlike Vader.

Declaring that Vader "ragdolled" Sheev is just being obviously biased to Vader. Its laughtable.

Dooku managed to hold his own against Sidious' equal in terms of TK - Yoda. Do you really believe, that Yoda would miss a chance for perhaps ending the war before it's even started? When Yoda himself stated, that if Dooku escapes, he will turn even more systems against the Republic? Yoda was there to stop Dooku, if he could stop him with the Force, without even hurting him, it would be the best option. But he most likely couldn't.
*That's not a declaration that Dooku is equally powerful to Yoda, that's declaration that he was powerful enough to not being stomped or easily bested.

Anakin had the speed advantage over Dooku. Vader does not. Anakin was less mobile then Dooku, which Dooku tried to use against him. Vader is far less mobile then Anakin, it will be even worse weakness. Anakin had superior raw power in the Force, he had far superior stamina. Dooku could barely holds his assault, which resulted in forcing Dooku to lost his balance, grabing his wrists and cut off his hands.
Vader, unlike Dooku, couldn't even hold Luke's assault, lost all of his stamina before Luke even cut off his hand. Against Anakin's full assault, Vader would be stomped even harder.

Vader is overrated as hell.

Vader stomps.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
However if we look at say Vader vs Ashoka, or Anakin vs Dooku in TCW Movie, when the weaker TK Combatant lands the TK hit it doesnt have the same impact as when the stronger TK Combatant lands one.

I agree and disagree. Depends of which kind of TK attacks it is. In temrs of, lets say Force push, it indeed works that way. Raw power is very iimportant.
But in terms of choke, much more important is techique and concentration in my opinion, since it's very hard to break that kind of attack. You have to be focused all the time, to hold and press it long enough.

Originally posted by McP
@deathslash

Dooku was smart enough, to knew what is coming for resisting. Vader had to learn that. In a quite humiliating way tbh.

Never had never ragdoll Sheev. To be honest, there is a suggestion that even someone far weaker then Sidious could catch him off guard. It was Maul, in a deleted scene from their fight. And since I heard years ago, that this scene cannot be treat a canon one, it simply shows a TCW's and canon's mechanics: when Sidious focused himself on attaking Maul and Savage with FL, he lowered his guard a little bit. Just like Anakin and Obi-Wan lowered their guards in Ventress' presence, just like Dooku and Ventress lowered their guards against Savage, when they focused on each others.
And yet, Maul was supposed to do that at least in battle. Unlike Vader.

Declaring that Vader "ragdolled" Sheev is just being obviously biased to Vader. Its laughtable.

Dooku managed to hold his own against Sidious' equal in terms of TK - Yoda. Do you really believe, that Yoda would miss a chance for perhaps ending the war before it's even started? When Yoda himself stated, that if Dooku escapes, he will turn even more systems against the Republic? Yoda was there to stop Dooku, if he could stop him with the Force, without even hurting him, it would be the best option. But he most likely couldn't.
*That's not a declaration that Dooku is equally powerful to Yoda, that's declaration that he was powerful enough to not being stomped or easily bested.

Anakin had the speed advantage over Dooku. Vader does not. Anakin was less mobile then Dooku, which Dooku tried to use against him. Vader is far less mobile then Anakin, it will be even worse weakness. Anakin had superior raw power in the Force, he had far superior stamina. Dooku could barely holds his assault, which resulted in forcing Dooku to lost his balance, grabing his wrists and cut off his hands.
Vader, unlike Dooku, couldn't even hold Luke's assault, lost all of his stamina before Luke even cut off his hand. Against Anakin's full assault, Vader would be stomped even harder.

Vader is overrated as hell.

Then what's this about?

Hell, he held him there for a while.
https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-03eb81ec74b1cf70d519fc46703eb6d9-c
But yeah, I'm totally being biased. That's what it is.

If by "hold his own" you mean "keep from getting instantly murdered and run away" then yes, he held his own. He also got smacked around by Savage and Ventress and was stated to have been on the losing end against someone that only had raw strength with no skill and someone that had skill with no real knowledge to back it up.

The same Ventress that got hilariously humiliated when she tried to go up against Yoda so yeah. Oh yeah, while we're at it, what happened when to that guy with the horns that was ragdolling Dooku? I seem to recall something about teaming up with his brother before they both got wrecked by a version of Kenobi that's inferior to the one that Vader fought.

Yes, and after being crippled, Vader learned to deal with his newfound shortcomings. He learned how to slowly and methodically take his opponents down with short burst of speed in conjunction with his insane skill. He learned to let them tire themselves out rather than putting it all on the line in a do or die flurry of blows. He doesn't fight like he used to, he fights like it's a war of attrition, and with his superior reserves of force power, it will be the end of Dooku.

Vader still wins.

Originally posted by One Big Mob
You seen his post and you decided to literally run away in real life?

😆

Dooku dominated even Ventress' blood vessels in Dark Rendenzvous lmao

When it comes to Force TK Showings and Feats from the EU, Vader trumps Dooku. Be that Legends or Canon.

I doubt anyone will argue that. Dookus only hope of winning is via the clash of Sabers.

If Vader wins, it won't be because of his TK. For one, TK only tends to play a decisive role when one character is already much more powerful than the other (which isn't the case here). Two, I fail to recall Vader TK'ing any of his opponents to devastating effect, especially not of Dooku's caliber. Third, Dooku's own TK mastery approaches Vader's, so he can return the favor if Vader attacks Dooku with TK.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
When it comes to Force TK Showings and Feats from the EU, Vader trumps Dooku. Be that Legends or Canon.

I doubt anyone will argue that. Dookus only hope of winning is via the clash of Sabers.

Originally posted by McP
@deathslash

Dooku was smart enough, to knew what is coming for resisting. Vader had to learn that. In a quite humiliating way tbh.

Never had never ragdoll Sheev. To be honest, there is a suggestion that even someone far weaker then Sidious could catch him off guard. It was Maul, in a deleted scene from their fight. And since I heard years ago, that this scene cannot be treat a canon one, it simply shows a TCW's and canon's mechanics: when Sidious focused himself on attaking Maul and Savage with FL, he lowered his guard a little bit. Just like Anakin and Obi-Wan lowered their guards in Ventress' presence, just like Dooku and Ventress lowered their guards against Savage, when they focused on each others.
And yet, Maul was supposed to do that at least in battle. Unlike Vader.

Declaring that Vader "ragdolled" Sheev is just being obviously biased to Vader. Its laughtable.

Dooku managed to hold his own against Sidious' equal in terms of TK - Yoda. Do you really believe, that Yoda would miss a chance for perhaps ending the war before it's even started? When Yoda himself stated, that if Dooku escapes, he will turn even more systems against the Republic? Yoda was there to stop Dooku, if he could stop him with the Force, without even hurting him, it would be the best option. But he most likely couldn't.
*That's not a declaration that Dooku is equally powerful to Yoda, that's declaration that he was powerful enough to not being stomped or easily bested.

Anakin had the speed advantage over Dooku. Vader does not. Anakin was less mobile then Dooku, which Dooku tried to use against him. Vader is far less mobile then Anakin, it will be even worse weakness. Anakin had superior raw power in the Force, he had far superior stamina. Dooku could barely holds his assault, which resulted in forcing Dooku to lost his balance, grabing his wrists and cut off his hands.
Vader, unlike Dooku, couldn't even hold Luke's assault, lost all of his stamina before Luke even cut off his hand. Against Anakin's full assault, Vader would be stomped even harder.

Vader is overrated as hell.

If anything Dooku is more overrated in the forums. There are people who think he can legit stomp Darth Maul and beat Mace Windu for whatever reason.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
When it comes to Force TK Showings and Feats from the EU, Vader trumps Dooku. Be that Legends or Canon.

I doubt anyone will argue that. Dookus only hope of winning is via the clash of Sabers.

In EU/Legends Vader's, I'll call it a "neutral TK showings" are superior to Dooku's, indeed. But Dooku's TK showings vs other Force users are also far superior to Vader's, who, in fact, was never able to overhelm at least a decent enemy with his Force TK as I remember. + some statements that was just a shadow of his former self blablabla
Legends Dooku, Mace, Maul, Kenobi before ANH > Vader tbh.

Originally posted by deathslash
"Vader never ragdolled Palpatine"

Then what's this about?

Hell, he held him there for a while.
https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-03eb81ec74b1cf70d519fc46703eb6d9-c
But yeah, I'm totally being biased. That's what it is.

Yes, yes, he ragdolled a person, who even didn't try to defend himself. Vader is a boss indeed.

Originally posted by deathslash
If by "hold his own" you mean "keep from getting instantly murdered and run away" then yes, he held his own. He also got smacked around by Savage and Ventress and was stated to have been on the losing end against someone that only had raw strength with no skill and someone that had skill with no real knowledge to back it up.

Yeah, that was what I meant. Vader is a lucky guy, that he never had to fight possibly the finest, fastest and most agile duelist in the whole Saga, and perhaps in the whole canon. And Sidious' equal in the Force at the same time.

Indeed, Dooku and even Ventress, Obi-Wan, Anakin are a victims of pre-retconed Savage. A beast, that could overhelm Dooku/Asajj and Anakin/Obi-Wan at some point in season 3. A beast, that with just a Maul's mere presence defeated Kenobi a few moments later, along with Maul forced Kenobi and Asajj to retreat in season 4. A beast got stomped by Maul, then had to work on defeating Adi, then got stomped by Kenobi despite being aided by Maul, then being stomped and killed by Sidious who was toying with him. All of that, with a statements, that he's stronger and stronger with each season of TCW passes.

In short: if you haven't noted, Savage was stronger in canon, but weaked on screen with each season. Anyway, in a fair solo fight, Dooku stomped either Ventress or Savage in S3.

Originally posted by deathslash
Yes, and after being crippled, Vader learned to deal with his newfound shortcomings. He learned how to slowly(...)

And yeah, that last one was a joke.

Yawn.... I love how people actually think Dooku, Maul and Kenobi are better than Vader lol

Originally posted by TheIndyJedi
Yawn.... I love how people actually think Dooku, Maul and Kenobi are better than Vader lol

They're all in the same tier for me. None of the fights would be stomps.

Originally posted by TheNuisanceBird
They're all in the same tier for me. None of the fights would be stomps.

Originally posted by TheIndyJedi
If anything Dooku is more overrated in the forums. There are people who think he can legit stomp Darth Maul and beat Mace Windu for whatever reason.

Dooku would not stomp Maul nor Kenobi. He should takes a great majority over Kenobi, I'm not sure if Kenobi would be able to even beat him. Something between 0-2 out of 10.
Maul would be far worse, Dooku should have an advantage in regular fights, buf if Maul would enter to his enraged mode, like he did at the end of his duel with Sidious... I'm not sure who would get a majority in that situation.
Mace is just another, overated guy. He was a level 9 in Gillard's opinion and that's was all that somehow made reasoneable to put him close to Yoda/Sidious' league. But it ended, like many others things. Mace couldn't dominate Talzin in sword fight (like Sidious could, when she was in Dooku's body and Sidious himself declared that her skill are inferior to Dook's - at least when she was in his body), he didn't seem to be in advantage against Maul (while being supported by Ayla). His reactions weren't good enough, to dodge a rocker, that Maul dodged. Mace should be lucky, that Filoni hadn't use him more.
And at the end of the day, even Gillard retconed his "level" to "8 bordering 9".
And that difference "really is the dark side".

Originally posted by McP
Dooku would not stomp Maul nor Kenobi. He should takes a great majority over Kenobi, I'm not sure if Kenobi would be able to even beat him. Something between 0-2 out of 10.
Maul would be far worse, Dooku should have an advantage in regular fights, buf if Maul would enter to his enraged mode, like he did at the end of his duel with Sidious... I'm not sure who would get a majority in that situation.
Mace is just another, overated guy. He was a level 9 in Gillard's opinion and that's was all that somehow made reasoneable to put him close to Yoda/Sidious' league. But it ended, like many others things. Mace couldn't dominate Talzin in sword fight (like Sidious could, when she was in Dooku's body and Sidious himself declared that her skill are inferior to Dook's - at least when she was in his body), he didn't seem to be in advantage against Maul (while being supported by Ayla). His reactions weren't good enough, to dodge a rocker, that Maul dodged. Mace should be lucky, that Filoni hadn't use him more.
And at the end of the day, even Gillard retconed his "level" to "8 bordering 9".
And that difference "really is the dark side".

7 statements list Vader as superior to Anakin, several of which are G canon and the only one that disagrees is referring to potential not power. So how TF did CV/KMC come to the conclusion that Anakin>Vader.