Avengers: Endgame (2019)

Originally posted by Impediment
My 17 year old daughter has been watching the MCU films at a slow but steady pace all through 2022 and she just recently finished Endgame.

Her initial reaction was very optimistic and satisfying, but she began asking me a lot of questions.

“Why didn’t Dr. Strange use the Time stone to kill or incapacitate Thanos?”

“Why the f*ck did Strange give away the Time stone?”

“Fourteen million alternate views and Iron Man is the only one?”

“Time travel seems like a cop out and lazy writing, dad.”

“Dude! We watched WandaVision and Wanda could have soloed Thanos!”

My kid is very much like me. She knows what’s up.

Originally posted by Patient_Leech
Yeah, I didn't like Endgame much at all. Mainly for the time travel. Like she said, it's lazy. We could see it coming from a mile away.

Also it was way too goddamn long.

I just pretend that Infinity War is the finale, heh. I liked that one.

The correct answers 👆

The movie fell flat on several levels for me:

1) The climax was LITERALLY the same as the prior film, only with a reversed outcome that was completely anticlimactic and unsurprising as it was narratively necessary to give the story ANY possible modicum of justified production.

2) Stark has ABSOLUTELY zero reason to sacrifice himself, given the presence of several other more powerful heroes, such as Thor, Captain Marvel, and Scarlet Witch, who could have wielded the Gauntlet without overloading

3) Thanos was reduced to a completely generic villain (although his initial Malthusian motivation was nonsensical to begin with) who wanted the omnipotent MacGuffin to destroy the universe, no different than Ego, Hela, Dormammu, and numerous other prior MCU villains. He could have been given a redemption arc, seeing the negative consequences of the snap and helping the heroes defeat an alternate version of himself to reconstruct the Gauntlet and protect the world from his alternate's new invasion plan. Instead he was more generic than Whedon Steppenwolf

4) The film lazily uses time travel to resolve all of it's problems even though Thanos, the Time Variance Authority, and/or the Illuminati should have complete control over time

5) The film ignores Agents of Shield although it's heroes are more than ready and qualified to deal with this situation (arguably BY THEMSELVES), and that's NOT INCLUDING the Defenders, Eternals, Egyptian/Omnipotence City Gods, or Runaways

6) The film only barely deals with the consequences of the Snap, whose effects are never made clear, as "50% of all life" could mean "50% of the dominant species", "50% of the biosphere", "50% of both genders/100% of one gender", "50% of the universe's habitable planets", etc....

7) The "female teamup" scene (and Shuri insulting Banner) was unbearably obnoxious feminist bait. Whereas in Infinity War, the Proxima Midnight fight was both empowering yet narratively organic, the scene in this felt more like demographic pandering than that bad Kardashian Pepsi commercial imo.

Endgame was weak.

It didn't suck, per se, but it was just lazy writing with no more imagination.

Time travel is just amateurish and easy.

It could have been so much better.

Originally posted by Lestov16

5) The film ignores Agents of Shield although it's heroes are more than ready and qualified to deal with this situation (arguably BY THEMSELVES),

Agents of Shield isn't canon anyway, Kevin Feige even said so.

^ So Coulsons dead ? 🙁

Originally posted by Impediment
Endgame was weak.

It didn't suck, per se, but it was just lazy writing with no more imagination.

Time travel is just amateurish and easy.

It could have been so much better.

Was a big step down from Infinity War and was naturally overhyped. Which is why there was some disappointment on my first viewing. But I found it does well on repeat viewings. The movie itself is well made and all around well acted.

The time travel was more multiversal than time travel tbh. Given they didnt change their own past. What I was afraid of going in was that they will time travel to change the events of Infinity War, which im glad they didnt do.

Originally posted by Impediment
My 17 year old daughter has been watching the MCU films at a slow but steady pace all through 2022 and she just recently finished Endgame.

Her initial reaction was very optimistic and satisfying, but she began asking me a lot of questions.

“Why didn’t Dr. Strange use the Time stone to kill or incapacitate Thanos?”

“Why the f*ck did Strange give away the Time stone?”

“Fourteen million alternate views and Iron Man is the only one?”

“Time travel seems like a cop out and lazy writing, dad.”

“Dude! We watched WandaVision and Wanda could have soloed Thanos!”

My kid is very much like me. She knows what’s up.

I'm SO GLAD I'm not the only one who thought Endgame was trash. When I saw Steve toss the shield away, I was so upset that once the credits rolled, I IMMEDIATELY rose out of my chair (in which I was in the front row with my brother and cousins) and exited the packed theater (who did not applaud THE MOST EXPENSIVE AND MOMENTOUS FILM IN CINEMATIC HISTORY ON OPENING NIGHT and instead silently left the theater with silent bewilderment ) ASAP before I could see a single credit or after-credit sequence.

Captain America was THE PARAGON OF NEVERENDING VIRTUE PROTECTION, and would never choose retirement over his duty to serve as the protector of the helpless and humanity as a whole, which is THE ENTIRE POINT OF HIS CHARACTER AND THE REASON HE WAS CHOSEN TO BE CAPTAIN AMERICA. It felt like such a betrayal of his character just to mark a narrative checkbox, and turned him from a literal Superman-level role model (who was even more heroic than the DCEU's Superman) into a wimpy chump.

Quite simply, his ****ING CATCHPHRASE IS "I CAN DO THIS ALL DAY" alluding to the fact that his drive to protect humanity is indomitable and immortal, yet he chooses to retire? ESPECIALLY after Iron Man dies causing the world to NEED a new hero to deal with the INDISPUTABLY AND IMMINENTLY catastrophic consequences of the Thanos/Hulk snap?????????? And instead he essentially ABANDONS HUMANITY TO GET LAID??????????? WTF were the writers smoking??????

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Was a big step down from Infinity War and was naturally overhyped.

Yes. Goes without saying.

Think most of us can easily agree on that part.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Which is why there was some disappointment on my first viewing. But I found it does well on repeat viewings. The movie itself is well made and all around well acted.

It's coherent and everything.

But it's also much different than IW. Different style, different feel to it. Despite Russos directing both parts. And Markus & McFeely writing both, too.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
The time travel was more multiversal than time travel tbh. Given they didnt change their own past. What I was afraid of going in was that they will time travel to change the events of Infinity War, which im glad they didnt do.

Because that's how time travel shenanigans work in Marvel in most cases.

Not every single time, there are exceptions, sure --- but it's the default rule there.

Cable said it the best... a future, not the future:

Which is exactly why the MCU is going into a toilet arguably worse than the DCEU. The ONLY reason people liked the MCU is because it SEEMED like Feige was trying to deliver a unified umbrella structure for the Marvel Franchise with guaranteed narrative connectivity through a SHARED CINEMATIC UNIVERSE.

Instead, we have:

-multiple pantheons (The Asgardians, The Omnipotence City Gods, The Egyptian Gods, and the Celestials, all of whom do not seem to know or care about the other's existence),

-multiple Multiverses (Because there is there is the Dr. Strange Multiverse, the post-Snap Multiverse, AND the Time Variant Authority Multiverse)
-and, as you said, multiple MCU projects that are suddenly NON-CANON(even though Agents of Shield is EASILY some of the GREATEST ENTERTAINMENT NOT JUST FOR THE MCU BUT FOR THE ART OF FILM)????,

- and (imo worst of all), the recklessly lazy demotion of THE ACTUAL MARVEL 616 MULTIVERSE into NON-CANONIZATION (Given that the Illuminati "designate" the MCU as Earth 616 (instead of the DECADE LONG-designation of "Earth-199999"😉 in Dr Strange and the Multiverse of Morons) (HOW IN THE PHUCKING ACTUAL PHUCKITY PHUCK DO YOU MAKE YOUR OWN FRANCHISE'S SOURCE MATERIAL NON-CANON?????? 😂 😂 🤣 😆 🤔😐

I am MEGA MEGA MEGA HYPED for the Black Panther sequel and the Nick Fury Movie, but Feige needs to STOP GETTING HIS DICK SUCKED ON THE MINNIE MOUSE PRIVATE YACHT PARTY AND EARN THIS ****ING GEEK MONEY. START COORDINATING, CONNECTING, AND FOCUSING ON YOUR FRANCHISE'S COSMOLOGY BEFORE IT BECOMES THE NEXT DCEU, which WILL HAPPEN if you are that NARRATIVELY NEGLIGENT and lazy. The MCU can become an eternally joyous castle or a depressingly lifeless graveyard. Depends on how the writers chose to go about it.

Also I ABSOLUTELY would like to see Brie Larson do more Captain Marvel. She's literally à one-person space armada and there is so much they could do with her character, especially given the influx of new superhero properties.

I hope the MCU is able to bounce back with their next few films. I enjoyed Thor Love And Thunder and look forward to seeing where that goes, and I was glad that Dr Strange got to another adventurous universe (although at that point I was just glad to leave the theater), but all of Marvel's writers need to meet up at the Walt Disney Ranch, turn off their phones, and LAY OUT A DETAILED PLAN AND CHART OF WHAT WILL BE SOLD TO THE AUDIENCE. This is THE BIGGEST FRANCHISE OF ALL TIME and they have PRACTICALLY INFINITE RESOURCES, yet THE NARRATIVE LOGISTICS LOOK LIKE THEY GOT THROWN INTO A RUNNING GARBAGE DISPOSAL. I mean, SERIOUSLY.....WTF is going on????????

^replying to this*

Originally posted by Kazenji
Agents of Shield isn't canon anyway, Kevin Feige even said so.

Lay off the drugs, Lest.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Lay off the drugs, Lest.

That's not drugs. That's a rant that I've been holding in ever since I saw Endgame and the most recent Dr. Strange trashfire. TBF I LOVED Thor: Love And Thunder (although that is because it worked better as a fantasy movie than a superhero movie imo.)

You lost me at Agents of Shield being some of the best MCU and film ever.

Sure was entertaining enough to watch to the end, but come on.

Endgame's biggest problem was that everyone had different expectations and things they wanted the saga to conclude with and almost nobody got what they wanted.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
You lost me at Agents of Shield being some of the best MCU and film ever.

Sure was entertaining enough to watch to the end, but come on.

Come on It was essentially Johnny Quest: The Live Action Mission Impossible Version. How is that not the pinnacle of awesome?

Okay maybe Agents of Shield isn't the Taj Mahal but it was undeniably a damn good show and Marvel should have kept it canon and built on it.

Originally posted by Lestov16
👆 x ∞

I'm SO GLAD I'm not the only one who thought Endgame was trash. When I saw Steve toss the shield away, I was so upset that once the credits rolled, I IMMEDIATELY rose out of my chair (in which I was in the front row with my brother and cousins) and exited the packed theater (who did not applaud THE MOST EXPENSIVE AND MOMENTOUS FILM IN CINEMATIC HISTORY ON OPENING NIGHT and instead silently left the theater with silent bewilderment ) ASAP before I could see a single credit or after-credit sequence.

Captain America was THE PARAGON OF NEVERENDING VIRTUE PROTECTION, and would never choose retirement over his duty to serve as the protector of the helpless and humanity as a whole, which is THE ENTIRE POINT OF HIS CHARACTER AND THE REASON HE WAS CHOSEN TO BE CAPTAIN AMERICA. It felt like such a betrayal of his character just to mark a narrative checkbox, and turned him from a literal Superman-level role model (who was even more heroic than the DCEU's Superman) into a wimpy chump.

Quite simply, his ****ING CATCHPHRASE IS "I CAN DO THIS ALL DAY" alluding to the fact that his drive to protect humanity is indomitable and immortal, yet he chooses to retire? ESPECIALLY after Iron Man dies causing the world to NEED a new hero to deal with the INDISPUTABLY AND IMMINENTLY catastrophic consequences of the Thanos/Hulk snap?????????? And instead he essentially ABANDONS HUMANITY TO GET LAID??????????? WTF were the writers smoking??????

First of all, Avengers: Endgame is my second favourite MCU film, behind Avengers: Infinity War.

Second, you must not have ever read a Captain America comic, because Steve Rogers has given up the Captain America mantle more than once. He took on the Nomad identity in the mid 1970's after being disillusioned with the government after Watergate. The late 1980's, he was challenged by the government committee he works under to do exactly as they say when they say it, or resign. He resigned, and that's what led them to recruit John Walker (later, U.S. Agent) to take his place for a couple of years.

Third, movies aren't comics. This is an adaption of the character to a different medium. In comics we may see heroes do the same thing fighting the same battles forever, but movies (and sometimes in TV) there's a character arc. Tony fulfilled his in a shocking and unexpected way in Endgame, but it did feel earned. The same with Cap. Each finally knew others would step up and take the mantle from them when they were gone. Bucky understood better than anyone, that Steve had earned the right to 'come home from the fight', finally.

Originally posted by jaden_2.0
Endgame's biggest problem was that everyone had different expectations and things they wanted the saga to conclude with and almost nobody got what they wanted.

Pretty disappointing.