Originally posted by Nib
1. Yes. It is entirely possible. If Thanos can paralyze him with the reality stone (even temporarily) like he did Drax, it is certainly possible.2. See above.
In which case it comes back down to the Reality stone.
Originally posted by Nib
3. And I never said you did. Reread I wrote. I am replying this line specifically:quote: (post)
Originally posted by Darth Thor
He changed Drax and Manta. And he's changed debris into bats. None of that is beyond Manhattan's matter manipulations abilties either.So I asked what “feats” you are basing the comment where you feel such matter manipulation is within DM’s abilities. Which is why I said: “equal or even close to”.
Ah. Apologies for not making myself clear there then. I didn't literally mean that he could turn Drax into lego or Debris into Bats. But that he should be able to effect those combatants/materials with his matter manipulaton abilities without a problem.
Originally posted by Nib
4. That’s is LITERALLY and EXACTLY the same thing. How are those 2 different? IF a character is being repped to be able to do something and do it at a certain level, they need “feats” to support it. W/c was my point.
Okay, but Im still not getting why DM needs to show matter manip feats on someone as strong as Thanos, but Thanos doesn't need to show Reality altering feats on someone who controls his own atoms like DM?
I mean sure Id give better odds to the reality changing ability due to it's nature, but surely the same principle should apply both ways.
Originally posted by Nib
5. That’s a weird question to ask. Why would “power” be a passive form of resistance against reality warp? I would feel “durability” or “will” or “magic defenses” even would reasonably be. But power? Why is power relevant? Do you see me using Thanos’ power levels as a form of passive resistance? Are we talking about DM using his power to actively resist reality warp (w/c is active resistance)? In w/c case it becomes a comparison on who has more power?
Well as mentioned above his Power in this case relates to manipulating atoms and energy, including his own.
Do we know the reality stone would still require a simple zap over someone like that? Would it still be as easy as transmutating Draz or Manta?
I dont know, as in terms of combatants he's only used it directly on the likes of Drax and Manta.
Originally posted by Nib
6. Except that we’ve seen Thanos actively resist/shield himself against a variety of attacks one after another using the gem’s abilities. W/c was another one of my points. And the best we’ve seen DM do with his powers was destroy a tank. W/c is well under the destructive force Thanos has been able to simply shrug off with his passive durability. Does DM have any showings of passive durability that would make you think that he would resist a reality warp? If no, then pls point out where the no-limits fallacy is in what I said. I am not averse to giving DM the win, but pls provide the “feats” to support the stuff you are claiming he is going or is able to do.
But he's not shielded himself from someone directly effecting his atoms though right? IIRC he has defended himself from various external blasts and physical impacts. I mean we have seen DM can also raise shields, but I doubt the reality stone would have to penetrate that first. It likely just effects DM directly, same as DMs attacks.
I think regenerating from complete disintegration (from an attack specifically designed to kill him), and going Intangible and just in general being able to control your own atoms, is probably the one of the best defences against someone screwing up your molecules with a reality changer, outside of magic of course.
Originally posted by Nib
7. Oh, I get that part of your argument quite well. Problem is, you don’t see the inherent flaws in it. Here let me break it down:Thanos has durability “feats”. Showings that DM would need “feats” to overcome (with the attack ability ppl are arguing he would use) via what he has shown on screen. When his attack’s showings are below what Thanos’ has been able to resist, then it is a reasonable argument to say that Thanos would resist such an attack. Saying durability/defenses are irrelevant is the no limits fallacy.
DM has no durability showings that I can remember. No one has posted any in this debate. He can reconstitute/regenerate/reassemble/phase. But resistance? Where is it? What does Thanos have to overcome with his reality warp? Pls don’t say “power”, that is active resistance and full-IG Thanos has got far more of that than DM does. Until someone posts a durability or resistance “feat” for DM, then it is fair for ppl to argue that DM won’t be able to resist such Reality manip. No fallacy here.
Again Thanos has been able to withstand outside physical and energy attacks via his durability. That is a very different attack to having your atoms manipulated.
It's like you state below in point 9, you wouldn't assume someone has resistance to telepathy due to being really strong. It's a completely different attack to which a completely different defence may be required.
Phasing and Healing and Shields are not all part of durability?
Bare in mind DM was only disintegrated by an attack specifically designed to kill him. And he was able to completely regenerate from complete disintegration. So that's not only an insane level of self atom control, but also shows even completely vaporizing him won't actually kill him, and it's just a matter of how long it will take him to reconstitute himself. He doesn't even seem to be a physical being (looking at how he first appears after his human form is completely destroyed.
In fact the more you make me think about it the more I myself a getting convinced he's probably got the best possible non-magical answer to the reality stone, and the more I feel the reality gem needs to prove itself to instantaneously work on a being like him, the way it worked on Drax.
As for the kind of physical durability you are talking about, it's not shown but heavily implied that Earth weapons can not harm him. He fought in giant size version (making himself a big easy target) and yet clearly wasn't in any danger. Like at all.
Originally posted by Nib
8. Sigh. I never said you claimed it would. I was replying to you stating that my logic (which this is a part of) was a no limits fallacy. Which it is not. Of course, it is entirely possible that you didn’t mean to include this in your no-limits claim, but I was being thorough as it seemed that you simply did a blanket “no limits” claim without addressing specific arguments if they were included or not.
Okay.
Originally posted by Nib
9. Drax and Mantis being “less powerful” has very little bearing here. The whole “power” argument for passive resistance is such a bad one. Seriously. We don’t suddenly think DM is resistant to telepathy because he is “powerful” do we? No, we look at certain resistance showings that are most relevant to the power being resisted. Durability against physical attacks like destructive attacks and matter manip, willpower against mental attacks like telepathy or hypnotism or pain attacks. Caveat: He can of course, resist using his matter manip power ACTIVELY (I have no problem with this). But that would boil down to a “feat vs feat” battle. W/c is one of my main points.
As already stated I agree.
So kindly explain which one of Thano's durability showings suggests he is resistant to matter manipulation? Not to a physical blow from Hulk, but to someone directly changing his atoms.
I really don't understand how you can equate physical attacks and matter manip as the same kind of attack (underlined). That really boggles my mind. A punch from Hulk is an outward force coming from the outside. Matter Manip is working on your very atoms directly.
Your caveat:
Or what if DM just teleports away in the midst of this matter manip vs reality chaning battle.. Would the reality stone still be effecting him? What's Thaonos range?
There's just too many variables to include here with a being like DM, nothing like anyone Thanos fought (and same vice versa).
Which is why I feel like it will come to whose quicker on the draw. It also helps both combatants here have a variety of options to use here.
Originally posted by Nib
10. DM is not Thor, DM does not have even remotely the same durability “feats” as Thor. Nor is his “durability” even similar in nature to Thor (he has regeneration and phasing, Thor has pure resistance). So mentioning whether or not it would work on Thor is an irrelevant tangent. Much moreso because it was never even used on Thor. Again, it is strange that you would even mention it as it proves absolutely nothing.
I have already pointed that out. Point is we don't just assume the reality stone effects everyone the same and as quickly as it did Drax. We wouldn't assume Thanos would just zap Surtur or Dormammu with the reality stone.
Now hey, it possibly could, but for us to be absolutely sure feats against those combatants would be needed.
Originally posted by Nib
11. Thor and DM are nowhere alike. And circumstances are different as DM will not be given a free sucker attack plus a follow up using a weapon designed by the same ppl who created the containment item for the Infinity Gems. So no, it not being used on Thor in a combat scenario has absolutely zero bearing here. Unless you can provide a specific reason why it would be?
As for the sucker attack, well he might basically get that when DM is the one who sees things before they happen. Whilst the chances of a sucker attack on DM are pretty much Nil.
Originally posted by Nib
12. The nature of the gauntlet is not common knowledge. A very select few even knows it even exists (while everyone on his Earth practically knows who DM is and what he can do). He is not omniscient and his futuresight is limited by his own experiences within the time stream. Is he even allowed to change it? From what I recall, he isn’t. I doubt he’d even know where Thanos’ powers come in his one single vision of the future. For Pete’s sake, Strange has a faaaaaaaaaaar better futuresight than DM. Didn’t help him one bit in over 14 million future scenarios.
Okay this is going off on a bit of a tangent. The fact that Strange saw 14 million possibilities means he didn't know exactly what was going to happen. Further he had to meditate to see that. DM sees the future as he is walking and talking and fighting. The Future, Present and Past are the same to him.
On top he's also witnessed events which happen so fast they are not possible for humans to receive.
So yeah, in terms of reflexes, and whose likely to initiate an attack first, DM has that in the bag no doubt.
Originally posted by Nib
13. I never claimed Thanos acts at the speed of thought. In fact, I was VERY EXPLICIT about asking for arguments/showings where their reaction speeds are compared with each other. That is why for the longest time I said that I was split due to the quickdraw scenario. It was when no one provided anything and I didn’t find anything compelling when I did my research that I decided to go with “Thanos wins” to get the ppl who DO think DM wins to provide their evidence/arguments.
I realise you are only asking for evidences.
Originally posted by Nib
14. Why in the world would seeing the immediate future make you act first? There is no prep here. And characters aren’t allowed prior knowledge before the fight starts. So DM’s futuresight won’t even trigger until they are both in the battlefield ready to attack each other (or defend against attack).
Did you really just ask that? Does a Jedi's pre-cog not allow him to act first, or Spider-Man's Spider-Sense.
Think you may be taking the rules a little too literally here, as they are not intended to gimp a character of one of his abilities.
In any case DM has been stated to have incredible speed time perception.
Originally posted by Nib
15. Why would his actions take less time? I wish you would elaborate your on comments more, I’m not a mind reader here.
To initiate some attacks, yes. We know he only has to think to activate his teleportation abilities. And is there really any question to who thinks faster?
Originally posted by Nib
16. Do you HAVE him TPing ppl in a combat scenario where the TP is faster? Pls post as I only have those showings as a basis.
I mean, I would just assume that when fighting for your life is when you would act the fastest.
In any case, what you showed for the teleportation taking a full second (the faster showing), is how long it takes AFTER its already been initiated. So then we have to get into if Thanos could actually stop it once it's already been initiated.
But it clearly only takes a thought for DM to initiate.
Originally posted by Nib
17. Why would I need to justify a character attacking/defending in a hypothetical scenario where he is one of two characters that are made to fight each other? You are not making any sense.
Because his opponent basically has Pre-Cog and faster time perception?
Originally posted by Nib
Ok then, let’s do reaction speed showings. I’ll start with this: Here is Tony blasting Thanos with a laser and Thanos raising his hand, activating the gem (you can tell by the purple glow) and blocking it in a specific spot. This happened in less than a second.(2:19)
Your evidence?
Ah good one! That's actually much faster than I thought.
Here's DM vapourizing Rorschach:
You see at 3:08 DMs made that decision to kill him, he then waves his hand, also at 3:08 and we see Rorschach explode still at 3:08.
I would also like to point out that in using the reality stone to transmute, Thanos hasn't quite been as quick.
It takes him almost 2 seconds to draw, glow and hit Drax here:
But tbf that is neither here nor there, as your vid shows how fast he can draw. Just might take a little longer for reality changing to begin.
^ Cant edit and place the Vids so they are here:
For Manhattan killing Rorschache:
And Thanos changing Drax:
Originally posted by Nib
5 Problems I have with this:1. Has DM actually managed to teleport individual parts instead of the whole person before?
2. The gauntlet is not common knowledge, how would he know to teleport it at all?
3. Dr. Strange actually has a superior method of teleporting stuff away and cutting stuff off via this teleportation. Yet thru 14 million variations this method won’t seem to work. Which seems to imply that Thanos has a defense against it.
4.DM teleportation has lag time, Thanos can close his hand and simply negate it the way he defended against mirror dimension banishment.
5. This is assuming DM strikes first before Thanos messes him up via the reality gem, w/c needs to be established.
1. It's not like he needs to teleport off an arm or a head. It's just the glove itself. It something Thanos wears/holds. It's not a part and parcel of him. So I really don't see why not.
That certainly seems simpler than altering DMs composition via a reality changer.
2. It's kinda clear that's a weapon he's wielding. Not to mention DM sees the future, and can perceieve and analyze atoms. Should not take too much thought to realize that glove is the only real threat to him.
3. Oh not at all. Strange opens portals through which you have to force your opponent. That would not work to get the glove off Thanos's hand. DM literally thinks to teleport other objects.
4. & 5. Addressed, but just to add:
DM also has TK to resist Thans clenching his fist, or to attempt to pull the Gauntlet off Thanos.
DM has many options, and Thanos abiltities relying on a weapon he wields is clearly a limitation DM doesn't have and he has multiple ways to take advantgae of that.
1. Will Thanos start the fight trying to turn DM into bubbles or whatnot?
Let's say yes. How can we be sure it's guaranteed to work permanently? It's not like DM needs a body to create one for himself. Thanos could just turn his Mbody. DM can recreate another body starting with nothing.
2. DM has super quick reflexes and future sight. His disintegration works instantly. He can become intangible, phasing through matter and energy. Duplicate himself multiple times.
3. Once DM initiates teleportation, in the first half second of the process, Thanos would not know what is going on. He wouldn't know that he or the gauntlet is being teleported until it happened.
Originally posted by Darth ThorSeruoisly? A guy who can reality warp him at his pleasure loses to slow poke Manhattan? Thanos is battle tested Manhattan is not. When he was exploded how long did it take him to reconstitute himself? That is considered a forum loss.
I actually didnt even think about DM switching to a duplicate body.Honestly im thinking more and more that DM might just be too versatile even for Thanos. And With no identifiable weaknesses as far as I can tell.
Originally posted by Darth Thor
1. In which case it comes back down to the Reality stone.2. Ah. Apologies for not making myself clear there then. I didn't literally mean that he could turn Drax into lego or Debris into Bats. But that he should be able to effect those combatants/materials with his matter manipulaton abilities without a problem.
3. Okay, but Im still not getting why DM needs to show matter manip feats on someone as strong as Thanos,
3b. but Thanos doesn't need to show Reality altering feats on someone who controls his own atoms like DM?
4. I mean sure Id give better odds to the reality changing ability due to it's nature, but surely the same principle should apply both ways.
Well as mentioned above his Power in this case relates to manipulating atoms and energy, including his own.
Do we know the reality stone would still require a simple zap over someone like that? Would it still be as easy as transmutating Draz or Manta?
5. I dont know, as in terms of combatants he's only used it directly on the likes of Drax and Manta.
6. But he's not shielded himself from someone directly effecting his atoms though right? IIRC he has defended himself from various external blasts and physical impacts. I mean we have seen DM can also raise shields, but I doubt the reality stone would have to penetrate that first. It likely just effects DM directly, same as DMs attacks.
7. I think regenerating from complete disintegration (from an attack specifically designed to kill him), and going Intangible and just in general being able to control your own atoms, is probably the one of the best defences against someone screwing up your molecules with a reality changer, outside of magic of course.
8. Again Thanos has been able to withstand outside physical and energy attacks via his durability. That is a very different attack to having your atoms manipulated.
It's like you state below in point 9, you wouldn't assume someone has resistance to telepathy due to being really strong. It's a completely different attack to which a completely different defence may be required.9. Phasing and Healing and Shields are not all part of durability?
10. Bare in mind DM was only disintegrated by an attack specifically designed to kill him. And he was able to completely regenerate from complete disintegration. So that's not only an insane level of self atom control, but also shows even completely vaporizing him won't actually kill him, and it's just a matter of how long it will take him to reconstitute himself. He doesn't even seem to be a physical being (looking at how he first appears after his human form is completely destroyed.
11. In fact the more you make me think about it the more I myself a getting convinced he's probably got the best possible non-magical answer to the reality stone, and the more I feel the reality gem needs to prove itself to instantaneously work on a being like him, the way it worked on Drax.
12. As for the kind of physical durability you are talking about, it's not shown but heavily implied that Earth weapons can not harm him. He fought in giant size version (making himself a big easy target) and yet clearly wasn't in any danger. Like at all.
Okay.
As already stated I agree.
13. So kindly explain which one of Thano's durability showings suggests he is resistant to matter manipulation? Not to a physical blow from Hulk, but to someone directly changing his atoms.
14. I really don't understand how you can equate physical attacks and matter manip as the same kind of attack (underlined). That really boggles my mind. A punch from Hulk is an outward force coming from the outside. Matter Manip is working on your very atoms directly.
Your caveat:
15. Or what if DM just teleports away in the midst of this matter manip vs reality chaning battle.. Would the reality stone still be effecting him? What's Thaonos range?
16. There's just too many variables to include here with a being like DM, nothing like anyone Thanos fought (and same vice versa).
17. Which is why I feel like it will come to whose quicker on the draw. It also helps both combatants here have a variety of options to use here.
1. Of course, it always did. Like I said, it would be an avenue if it ever becomes a pitched battle. Any small opening by the reality stone that leads to a touch would mean an immediate and absolute victory for Thanos.
2. Yeah, thanks for the clarification. However, let it be said that being able to “affect something” similarly is not the same as having matter/reality manipulation at the same levels. Just because you can fold paper doesn’t mean you have the same abilities as an origami master. Thanos has demonstrated higher control, higher scale and a much higher ability to break physical rules. This would translate as him having the superior matter/reality manipulation ability between the two. Which is important to consider when it becomes their abilities are put against each other.
3. It’s not about Thanos being “strong” it’s about his “durability”. Matter manip is a physical effect and durability is used to resist physical effects. It is a no limits fallacy to assume durability is irrelevant. As we do not know the actual science behind DM’s matter manip (as it is fictional), whether it actually bypasses durability is not known. Thus, reasonably, we can only base it on what he has been able to affect in the past and up to the limits of the durability of the items he has affected. The same way we don’t assume the Silver Surfer or Sersi would beat anyone without explicit matter manip resistance “feats”.
3b. I already said that I am not averse to Manhattan resisting using his own matter manip powers. But resistance thru his own matter manipulation is an active response. Thus, to be fair on both sides, we need to go “feat-vs-feat” and compare between what each character is able to do. Essentially: If DM is allowed to use his powers to resist, Thanos should be allowed to pour on more power to overcome this resistance to the maximum of each other’s “feats”.
4. The principle IS being applied both ways. Here, let me break it down further (I hope this is the last time):
DM has shown he can matter manip up to the level of a tank as well as blow humans up. He can also create giant floating glass vessels from Martian sand. Does Thanos have “feats” above the durability/resistance of a tank, humans, sand and glass? Yes he does.
Thanos has “feats” for matter/reality manipulating beings as durable as Drax and the Hulkbuster armor, as varied as energy blasts and magical spells and as large a scale as the gigantic debris dropped on him and most of Knowhere and the immediate visible surface of Titan. Does DM have durability/resistance “feats” above Drax and the Hulkbuster armor? <—- insert answer here.
It just looks like to me, that the pro-DM side wants to not provide any “feats” and just assumes DM’s abilities (both offensive and defensive) works the way they want “just because”.
5. This is an irrelevant argument to only accept overspecific evidence. Combatants matter, sure, but so do physical objects. And it is irrelevant because it doesn’t change anything as DM still has no “feats” that can compare.
6. You’re assuming a lot here. As I said, we do not know how DM’s (or Thanos’ for that matter) abilities work. Thus, we use “feats” to establish what they can do. We can use inference within reason as long as we are consistent to both sides but “feats” trump all. All I have to do is ask if DM’s abilities have faced shielding/durability of that level before or if it was explicitly mentioned in the movie that his abilities ignore shielding/durability. If not, then you cannot make the argument that they do. Essentially: Evidence. Please.
7. I never said that DM cannot regenerate or phase (BUT let it be known that Thanos has “feats” wherein he phased the Hulkbuster armor and still affected it within its phased condition). In fact, that is why I mentioned that reality manip could likely be temporary as I’ve already considered the implications of DM’s self-matter control. IMO, Thanos might need to actively KEEP DM in a state of paralysis via the reality gem and it might last forever as DM might figure out a way to break free. Which is why I used the mind gem as a finisher.
8. Again, no limits fallacy and argument based on assumption with no evidence. Matter manip is a physical effect. Telepathy is mental. It’s a desperate argument to try and give DM’s powers special rules just so you can ignore Thanos’ “feats”. Heck, when DM blows up his targets, we don’t even know the science behind it (or even if it IS matter manipulation or just a burst of energy), and somehow you are assuming that it works exactly how you need it to in order for you to not need to provide evidence and ignore the evidence provided to you. Even though it was never specifically mentioned that it worked that way. I feel that this is a bit disingenuous.
9. Healing is healing and phasing is phasing? Shielding, sure I can go with that as approximately similar. Got any shielding “feats” for DM? And what these shields have been able to resist? I can’t remember where he did this (he created a pocket atmosphere for SS, but that’s all I can remember).
10. This seems like a completely irrelevant comment. Nobody was disputing DM’s control over his own molecules. Like I said, if you want to argue the levels of DM powers vs Thanos’, then we go “feat to feat”. It’s that simple. DM’s control over his own molecules/atoms vs Thanos’ control over reality. Via “feats”. And what relevance is him not needing a physical body? Has he ever shown to not need a physical body to perform his “feats”? AFAIK he’s needed his physical body to do most everything he does.
<to be continued on next post>
11. That is because you continuously make assumptions without evidence. Stick with arguments that are quantified by evidence and make no assumptions then you will see where the flaw in your stance is.
12. Implication is not evidence. Especially when it can easily be explained by any of the myriad he abilities DM has already demonstrated (phasing, healing/regeneration).
13. See above.
14. See above.
15. You’re asking for full IG-Thanos’ RANGE? Ok...the entire freaking universe? You know, the universe whose sentient populace he snapped half off to nonexistent dust (As none of the gems other than the reality stone can really turn ppl to dust like that). You may want to give this idea a little bit more thought.
16. Thanos has far superior power, versatility, control, defenses, reach and ability to break physical rules. He has DM completely beat in everything that matters in a fight save maybe for the fact that DM the ability to control his own molecules. But the second Thanos brings his powers to bear vs DM, he will win.
17. Annnnd for like several pages I already agree that this is why I waited to proclaim Thanos as winner, because I had my doubts about the quickdraw.
I have, however, provided evidence of Thanos’ reaction time via an on screen “feat”.
Something you did not do for DM.
Originally posted by Darth Thor
1. It's not like he needs to teleport off an arm or a head. It's just the glove itself. It something Thanos wears/holds. It's not a part and parcel of him. So I really don't see why not.That certainly seems simpler than altering DMs composition via a reality changer.
2. It's kinda clear that's a weapon he's wielding. Not to mention DM sees the future, and can perceieve and analyze atoms. Should not take too much thought to realize that glove is the only real threat to him.
3. Oh not at all. Strange opens portals through which you have to force your opponent. That would not work to get the glove off Thanos's hand. DM literally thinks to teleport other objects.
4. & 5. Addressed, but just to add:
DM also has TK to resist Thans clenching his fist, or to attempt to pull the Gauntlet off Thanos.
DM has many options, and Thanos abiltities relying on a weapon he wields is clearly a limitation DM doesn't have and he has multiple ways to take advantgae of that.
1. Because you need “feats” to prove that he can. So.... has he?
2. DM’s futuresight cannot be used this way. Proof:
JON: This is where we hold our conversation. In it, you reveal to me that you and Dreiberg have been sleeping together.
SS: You know about me and Dan?
DM: Not yet. But in a few moments, you're going to tell me.
SS: If you already know the future, then why were you surprised when I left you? Or when that reporter ambushed you? Why even argue about it if you already know how this is gonna end?
Dr Manhattan: I have no choice. Everything is preordained. Even my responses.
Essentially, everything he does.... is scripted. He is unable to respond to the future until it is directly revealed to him via an initiator who functions within the standard time flow and he is still required to respond to it as if he never knew about it.
He sees/knows what will happen but he is bound by the flow of time and he has a fixed or (at best) limited ability to respond to it. The best he’s been able to do to “affect” the future is tell ppl he knows about it but he is still required to behave in such a way that the information is new as everything is preordained. This is proven with not just character comments but is further demonstrated via in-movie showings of his responses such as the media scene as well as the time when the Comedian shot his pregnant baby momma. DM would have seen it coming but he still reacted and spoke with surprise as if it was all new to him.
Bottom line, under these limitations, he won’t be using his futuresight as intel to TP the gauntlet off.
And, like I said, I doubt he’d figure out what was happening and where Thanos’ powers come from in the single time flow that he gets to see before he gets wrecked
3. Has he though?
In 14 million variations you don’t think Strange wouldn’t be able to figure out an exact timing for Thanos to fall into the slingring gate with everything except his arm?
And how was 4 and 5 “addressed”? Looks more like “skipped” to me?
Originally posted by Robtard
"I've walked across the surface of the sun, [b]seen events so tiny and so fast that they hardly can be said to have occurred at all." -Dr. ManhattanMore proof that Manhattan's far faster than Thanos with his super-perception of time/events [/B]
I actually mentioned that quote in my very first post. 😛
Perception is not reaction, though. That is why I asked for “feats”.
Especially as his perception seems to work differently than ours. He may be able to glance at very minute moments and “pause” them in his mind somehow. I don’t know. Like I said, plenty of times where superspeed would have been pretty convenient for him. Like when he tried to grab Ozy, for example but missed.
He just doesn’t show the “feats”, w/c is my issue here.
Nibe is known for posting a shit ton of faulty or irrelevant arguments. Makes members work by reading all of it. His strategy is to tire you out.
1. DM disintegrates by removing an objects intrinsic field. This field is responsible for keeping matter together (strong and weak nuclear forces). Without the field, objects will just fall apart (subatomically). Therefore, durability is irrelevant. Plus Thanos has no feats of resisting matter manipulation and was cut by IM.
2. Given what DM can do, it is highly unreasonable to assume he can't teleport the gauntlet off. That's plain stupid. You want us to infer things Thanos can do that is higher than what he has shown, yet DM can't do such a simple task.
3. DM can recreate his Body starting from NOTHING (he exists without a body). Thanos matter manipulating his Mbody wouldn't be permanent. DM can also create multiple clones of himself. DM can also become intangible and phase through matter and energy.
4. DM has faster reflexes and knows the future. Thanos needs to point and shoot in order to matter manipulate someone. And like in 3. matter manipulating DM won't work permanently (if at all).
Originally posted by Darth Thor
I actually didnt even think about DM switching to a duplicate body.Honestly im thinking more and more that DM might just be too versatile even for Thanos. And With no identifiable weaknesses as far as I can tell.
Strange has created clones before. Thanos wiped them all out and pulled all the clones back into a single body when he wanted to.
The one time DM lost his primary body and switched to another, it took time (unless you feel like he watched because he was enjoying the ass kicking being dealt to his wife). And it still could fall to another reality gem attack.
Weaknesses? Let’s see.... mind gem, time gem, reality gem?
Originally posted by h1a8
1. Will Thanos start the fight trying to turn DM into bubbles or whatnot?
Let's say yes. How can we be sure it's guaranteed to work permanently? It's not like DM needs a body to create one for himself. Thanos could just turn his Mbody. DM can recreate another body starting with nothing.2. DM has super quick reflexes and future sight. His disintegration works instantly. He can become intangible, phasing through matter and energy. Duplicate himself multiple times.
3. Once DM initiates teleportation, in the first half second of the process, Thanos would not know what is going on. He wouldn't know that he or the gauntlet is being teleported until it happened.
Yawn.
Originally posted by Nibedicus
h1 has been challenged to a BZ again.Til he accepts, all his further comments addressing me are considered just more attempts to divert attention from the fact that he is completely unwilling to prove his BS.
Originally posted by Nibedicus
I actually mentioned that quote in my very first post. 😛Perception is not reaction, though. That is why I asked for “feats”.
Especially as his perception seems to work differently than ours. He may be able to glance at very minute moments and “pause” them in his mind somehow. I don’t know. Like I said, plenty of times where superspeed would have been pretty convenient for him. Like when he tried to grab Ozy, for example but missed.
He just doesn’t show the “feats”, w/c is my issue here.
DM's powers are activated at the speed of a thought, he thinks; it happens. Thanos has to think and then physically activate the stones to use them via gesture, that was made perfectly clear in the film multiple times.
This comes down to who can draw the fastest as either guy can one-shot the other. DM has the speed here.
Originally posted by Robtard
DM's powers are activated at the speed of a thought, he thinks; it happens. Thanos has to think and then physically activate the stones to use them via gesture, that was made perfectly clear in the film multiple times.This comes down to who can draw the fastest as either guy can one-shot the other. DM has the speed here.
Based on what showing, though?
That’s all I’ve been asking since my first post.
I’ve posted a reaction “feat” for Thanos w/c was within less than a second where he moved his hand and activated the gems to defend himself. All I asked since wayyy back was something from DM that made ppl think that he would act faster. A “feat”, a showing. Anything. No implied power/assumptions/theories.
And again, the one shot argument is a no-limits fallacy. No one has provided “feats” for DM outside of: blowing up ppl, dissasembling a tank and creating glass from sand. All well within what Thanos has been shown able to survive. Why is his durability being bypassed here?
From the perspective of actual “feats”, DM is sorely lacking.