Who is more heroic: Captain America vs. Thor

Originally posted by h1a8
I guess the Destroyer wrecking everything in site.
Doesn't matter as we know Thor was on his agenda.
Thus Thor was going to die anyway.

The question that settles this debate is
1. Would Cap do every act of heroism Thor did?
2. Would Thor do every act of heroism Cap did?

I argue that Thor wouldn't have jumped on a grenade for random soldiers that made fun of him.

If you disagree then we have a tie.
Thus the tie breaker is Thor trying to kill Cap for just trying to talk to him. Thor loses points there. Cap would have never done such a thing.

You claimed Loki intended to destroy all of humanity, prove it.

Originally posted by FrothByte
And yet Thor has both quality AND quantity. As I've already proven without doubt.

No you didnt. You proved that you are either trolling or playing idiot.

Thor saved his friends, Cap saved his enemies.

Cap is more heroic. Cap wins. Thread answered. Keep being neutral.

Points intact.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
No you didnt. You proved that you are either trolling or playing idiot.

Thor saved his friends, Cap saved his enemies.

Cap is more heroic. Cap wins. Thread answered. Keep being neutral.

Points intact.

Now see, what's the point in me answering your posts if you're just going to keep repeating the same thing over and over even if you've already been proven wrong over and over.

I just finished pointing out that Thor wasn't saving his friends but rather the townspeople of New Mexico, because his friends weren't in immediate danger. And the other soldiers weren't Cap's enemies.

Bottom line is: Thor sacrificed his life twice, both for the greater good. Cap sacrificed himself once when he was going to die anyway, and another time when there was no real need for him to do so.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
@Frothbyte

If you want to keep this argument [B] I will demand for you to take a side. Cause otherwise this isn't a debate and therefore the Tribunal is wasting it's time.

Your choice now Froth.

As per now, this case is concluded. Cap wins. [/B]

As you claimed. Whats the point if you keep repeating yourself.

Either accept my points or pick a side.

Originally posted by FrothByte
Now see, what's the point in me answering your posts if you're just going to keep repeating the same thing over and over even if you've already been proven wrong over and over.

I just finished pointing out that Thor wasn't saving his friends but rather the townspeople of New Mexico, because his friends weren't in immediate danger. And the other soldiers weren't Cap's enemies.

Bottom line is: Thor sacrificed his life twice, both for the greater good. Cap sacrificed himself once when he was going to die anyway, and another time when there was no real need for him to do so.

Pointless

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
As you claimed. Whats the point if you keep repeating yourself.

Either accept my points or pick a side.

Dude, you can't just make up "points" and expect people to accept them, especially when they're blatant lies. For example, you claimed Thor knew that he had to sacrifice himself to be worthy to lift Mjolnir, at which point I pointed out that Thor knew nothing about the enchantment. What did you do? Ignored what I said and repeated the same thing again.

You then claimed Thor was saving Jane. I pointed out that Jane wasn't in any immediate danger from the Destroyer and that he was actually acting to protect the innocent people of New Mexico. What did you do? Ignored what I said and kept repeating the same thing.

The entire reason I got back in to debating with you was because you claimed you can bring solid evidence to back your claim. I have now proven that your "evidence" is nothing more than stuff you made up.

Originally posted by FrothByte
Dude, you can't just make up "points" and expect people to accept them, especially when they're blatant lies. For example, you claimed Thor knew that he had to sacrifice himself to be worthy to lift Mjolnir, at which point I pointed out that Thor knew nothing about the enchantment. What did you do? Ignored what I said and repeated the same thing again.

You then claimed Thor was saving Jane. I pointed out that Jane wasn't in any immediate danger from the Destroyer and that he was actually acting to protect the innocent people of New Mexico. What did you do? Ignored what I said and kept repeating the same thing.

The entire reason I got back in to debating with you was because you claimed you can bring solid evidence to back your claim. I have now proven that your "evidence" is nothing more than stuff you made up.

Thanks for admiting you are running from the debate.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
Thanks for admiting you are running from the debate.

Lame Josh. Lame. Anyone reading our discussions can easily see that I've done nothing but try to address your points whereas you kept ignoring mine and now seemingly are trying to get out of the debate. Your snark remarks won't hide the fact that you're now on the run.

Originally posted by FrothByte
Dude, you can't just make up "points" and expect people to accept them

You are hilarious.

As a good debater I am. I picked a side based on movie feats, logic, and evidences.

I support Captain America (As most in this thread).

FrothByte decides to attack my points with personal attacks and defends himself CLAIMING HE IS NEUTRAL (Which means he isn't debating).

I support my case and built up a comparisson between both characters and a summary of all movies.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
[B]The Tribunal has evaluated both Thor's and Cap's trilogies:

[B]Captain America:
- A no one whose future was to be a random American person with a 'no one cares' future.
- He was sick, small, and underestimated.
- He was rejected to participate in WW2 and bullied.
- Despite being bullied he kept working hard and manage to enter the academy (As a random soldier destined to get killed by a Nazi!)
- He was in poor condition and yet managed to win all his courses in the academy.
- He sacrificed himself into what looked like a granade to safe his pals proving his massively heroic attitude.
- Finally rewarded for his attitude earning the SSS and becoming America's idol and embassador in WW2.
- He made the ultimate sacrifice by crashing Red Skull's plane into the ice saving a World who 1. Never believed in him 2. Mistreated him

Thor:
- Son of Odin, and heir of Asgard
- He was strong, powerful and damn handsome.
- He was given Mjolnir, one of the Universe's most power weapon at its time
- His pride and ego made him lose Mjolnir and his Powers
- He was casted to Earth where he had a decent lifetime and being looked over by Jane Foster and her friends
- He finally became humble and got a punch from Destroyer making him 'Worthy again'.
- Went to Asgard to fulfill his duty as heir to the throne, and fix something HE STARTED! He defeated Loki....Which is expected since he is the true son of Odin, and had Mjolnir which>>>>>Odin staff!

Captain America: The Winter Soldier
-Hydra comes out of the shadows
-Bucky Barnes aka. The Winter Soldier makes it's return and attack's SHIELD, attempts to kill both Cap and Nick Fury
- Did Steve even had a mother to look after him!? Did he even had someone to take care of him!!? Did he even had someone to feed him and love him!?..The only woman who loved him (Agent Carter) was ripped off his arms by time.
- Steve never had a brother! The only brother he ever knew 'apparently died' only to return years later as an enemy known as the Winter Soldier. Now he is faced with the heart-breaking task of facing his own brother in combat.
- Steve rather DIE! HE RATHER DIE instead of his brother who had turned evil and didn't only wanted to kill him but wanted the to destroy the world. Not only that, but Steve actually saved the day AGAIN!

Thor: Dark World
-Dark Elves come out of the shadows
-Malekith attacks Asgard killing Freya and kidnapping Jayne
- The entire Asgard moarns Freya's death and gives her a HELL of a funeral worthy of the Queen of Asgard. Her death is but a collateral damage between The Asgard-Elf wars.
- Thor follows his duty as Heir of Asgard and goes face Malekith which results in Loki 'apparently dying'. Sure Thor moarned him too, another casualty of war.
- BLAH BLAH BLAH, usual storytelling. The good guy defeats the bad one. End of Thor.

Captain America: Civil War
-Following the events of Sokovia the Cap has to choose whether following Stark’s decision to limit the Avengers to the Sokovia Accords or keep fighting for freedom despite breaking his relationship with Tony who although they’ve had their differences, are still friends.
-Winter Soldier appears again. He seems to be a villain, but is in truth the outcome of Hydra’s evil and experiments. Bucky was the closest thing to a brother Cap had (to our knowledge). He won’t give up on him, a true sign of love and heroism.
-Avengers split up. Tony wants to have revenge on Bucky. All Cap wants is to avoid conflict; he wants to protect Bucky. Tony is blinded by rage and anger, he is too emotionally to think properly on his actions and threatens to destroy the Avengers (As a team).
-Things end up for worse. Avengers are split up. Cap is FORCED to fight his OWN FRIENDS! In the end they manage to save Bucky and they escape. However, IM isn’t satisfied and won’t stop his plans of vengeance.
-Final conflict: IM engages both Bucky and Steve. Steve is reluctant to fight. ALL HE WANTS IS TO SAVE BUCKY. Yet Tony is enraged…well he has reasons to. Tony won’t hold back, he will have his vengeance.
-Finally after one of the most heart-breaking fights in the entire MCU…Cap manages to pull an unexpected victory…He didn’t killed Tony, he just stopped him…
-In the end, Cap’s decision cost him his friendship with Tony. He ended up being a considered a CRIMINAL by the world he once saved! By the country he once sacrificed everything for!

Thor Ragnarok:
-Odin goes missing. Thor and Loki find him in Norway. Odin dies of age. The sad truth of mortality.
-Hela appears. She is Thor’s sister, although Thor never even knew of her. Does Thor love her? Does Thor care for her? Well he did throw Mjolnir at her…Hardly a loving welcoming…
-Well Hela defended herself and exiled Thor and Loki. Thor ended up in Sakaar where he met old friends and make some new ones (Valkyrie and Hulk). In the end he is fine, and sets on a mission to save Asgard.
-They scape Sakaar and reach Asgard. Thor is fine, he had a hell of a trip from Sakaar to Asgard. He admits the food wasn’t the best, but he isn’t that demanding.
-Thor engages Hela. No holds barred! He will have Asgard back.
-After a hell of a fight. Surtur is released. Thor along with the rest of the Asgardians successfully escape, whilst Hela along with Asgard are obliterated COMPLETING RAGNAROK….The End of Asgard as it was prophesized so long ago….Although Asgard was destroy, “Asgard is not a place. Asgard is where it’s people is…” Odin Borson (I might have not write the exact words, but you get the concept).
-In the end Thor escapes unharmed (besides his eye which makes him look even more damn HANDSOME). His relationship with Loki solidifies! He meets a new hot chick (Valkyrie).

Cap's got more characterwise hard decisions to make. Thor has had more difficult tasks. [/B]

FrothByte keeps whimping and crying all over the place. He isn't satisfied.

FrothByte keeps playing Neutral, which means i am not obligued to argue him.

FrothByte demands a SINGLE argument from me. He decides to play blind and decides to ignore the TON of arguments i brought previously.

I am reasonable and give him the argument.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
Well maybe am being deficult because you are being blind, irrational, and trolling Froth.

Either way, let it not be known that the Tribunal isn't condescending.

[B]1 feat proving Captain America being more heroic than Thor

- First of all jury i will start giving the definition of heroism:

- Merriam Webster Dictionary

- Therefore we can conclude that being heroic doesn't concern with power or strength (physically). Rather Heroism is concerned with the character's personality and traits. Furthermore, we can conclude that heroism is solely concerned with the conduct and actions a character takes when in times of hardship.

Argument demanded by the opposition:

A feat both characters share and which can be therefore brought for comparisson is that of Self Sacrifice. Both Thor and Captain America have comitted Self Sacrifice.

In Thor 1 we saw Thor giving himself to the Destroyer in order to save those he love. In Captain America the First Avenger we saw Steve sacrificing himself to a granade for random non-important soldiers.

Now, IT'S CLEAR who the most heroic is.

I will move now to address why Captain America is evidentely and without a doubt the most heroic.

Although Thor did in fact Self Sacrificed himself, which does make him very heroic, the fact is he was the reason the Destroyer was on Earth in the first place. Thor was on Earth because he was insolent, irresponsible and abusive. Furthermore, although Thor did Self Sacrificed, it was for those he loved (Jayne was there, his Asgardian fellows were there, etc). Furthermore, it could be argued that Thor knew he would 'Become Worthy' if he Self Sacrificed, which means Thor knew he wasn't endangered in the first place.

On the other hand, we got Steve who was

1. Bullied by the other Soldiers
2. Underestimated; no one believed in him.
3. Didn't had a responsibility to save them
4. No one was really in danger since all the soldier ran away (no one would have died really). Furthermore he could have run away too (like the other soldiers)

It's clear Captain America is heroic by nature. He was a no one. The very reason he became Captain America is because he EARNED IT. He was recognized for his herosim and great personality.

Conclusion:

Thor is heroic yes. I never stated otherwise. However, Cap just go the lead.

Cap is an authentic hero. He never owned anyone anything, and yet gave it all.

I hope you are content Froth. This should be enough to make you stop trolling me

[/B]

FrothByte is unable to rebuke my argument. He decides to troll and tries to distort and change movie facts. FrothByte keeps whimping although he is PLAYING NEUTRAL.

I demand FrothByte to debate me.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
@Frothbyte

If you want to keep this argument [B] I will demand for you to take a side. Cause otherwise this isn't a debate and therefore the Tribunal is wasting it's time.

Your choice now Froth.

As per now, this case is concluded. Cap wins. [/B]

FrothByte decides to ignore my request. He keeps dodging and running while simultaniously crying and whimping about the arguments i've brought forth.

Let it be known that I tried to debate whilst you @FrothByte were running from me and playing ignorant.

This case is closed. Cap wins. You can keep NEUTRAL as much as you like Froth, just stop interfering in the facts.

Originally posted by FrothByte
Lame Josh. Lame. Anyone reading our discussions can easily see that I've done nothing but try to address your points whereas you kept ignoring mine and now seemingly are trying to get out of the debate. Your snark remarks won't hide the fact that you're now on the run.

You are finished here. Just remain Neutral for your own sake.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
You are hilarious.

[B] As a good debater I am. I picked a side based on movie feats, logic, and evidences.

I support Captain America (As most in this thread).

FrothByte decides to attack my points with personal attacks and defends himself CLAIMING HE IS NEUTRAL (Which means he isn't debating).

I support my case and built up a comparisson between both characters and a summary of all movies.

FrothByte keeps whimping and crying all over the place. He isn't satisfied.

FrothByte keeps playing Neutral, which means i am not obligued to argue him.

FrothByte demands a SINGLE argument from me. He decides to play blind and decides to ignore the TON of arguments i brought previously.

I am reasonable and give him the argument.

FrothByte is unable to rebuke my argument. He decides to troll and tries to distort and change movie facts. FrothByte keeps whimping although he is PLAYING NEUTRAL.

I demand FrothByte to debate me.

FrothByte decides to ignore my request. He keeps dodging and running while simultaniously crying and whimping about the arguments i've brought forth.

Let it be known that I tried to debate whilst you @FrothByte were running from me and playing ignorant.

This case is closed. Cap wins. You can keep NEUTRAL as much as you like Froth, just stop interfering in the facts.

You do know that reposting what you previously said then agreeing with them again AND THEN congratulating yourself for posting them is not actually debating right? It doesn't make your statements any more correct, it just makes it obvious that you can't refute my statements.

Originally posted by FrothByte
No one is saying that you have to have lots to lose to become a hero. However, we are saying that self-sacrifice is an aspect of heroism and the fact is, self-sacrifice is a lot harder and challenging for people with more to lose than those with less.

I acknowledge your argument and if we break down each trait of heroism and want to debate that way, that is fine.

My point is that if someone is a true hero then being selfless is not going to change whether they are a common person or the Prince of Asgard. They are selfless because they are heroic and if you risk your life to save someone, you are sacrificing the most valuable thing any of us have.

Honestly we are splitting hairs here and even if I go with your premise, I still think Cap wins more of the other traits and comes out on top.

Originally posted by FrothByte
You do know that reposting what you previously said then agreeing with them again AND THEN congratulating yourself for posting them is not actually debating right? It doesn't make your statements any more correct, it just makes it obvious that you can't refute my statements.

Except i wasnt debating. 😂 I stopped debating the moment you called yourself a pussy.

I just proved that I was willing to debate whilst you were running and crying. Just for the board to see the facts of what happened here.

Originally posted by WolvesofBabylon
I acknowledge your argument and if we break down each trait of heroism and want to debate that way, that is fine.

My point is that if someone is a true hero then being selfless is not going to change whether they are a common person or the Prince of Asgard. They are selfless because they are heroic and if you risk your life to save someone, you are sacrificing the most valuable thing any of us have.

Honestly we are splitting hairs here and even if I go with your premise, I still think Cap wins more of the other traits and comes out on top.

Wolves dont waste your time. He isnt debating.

He is neutral and wont back anyone. However he will discredit and attack Cap's supporters.

Froth is hilarious.

Originally posted by WolvesofBabylon
I acknowledge your argument and if we break down each trait of heroism and want to debate that way, that is fine.

My point is that if someone is a true hero then being selfless is not going to change whether they are a common person or the Prince of Asgard. They are selfless because they are heroic and if you risk your life to save someone, you are sacrificing the most valuable thing any of us have.

Honestly we are splitting hairs here and even if I go with your premise, I still think Cap wins more of the other traits and comes out on top.

Ok, here's a scenario: World War 3 has come around and your country asking for volunteers to fight in the war. Most of the people who fight in the war end up dying.

Man A volunteers. He has no wife, no kids, no family, no decent friends, is currently jobless and is having trouble paying rent.

Man B also volunteers. He has a loving wife w/ 3 young kids, a decent home, was about to get promoted to manager in a month, and his side business just started blooming.

Who do you think sacrificed more to volunteer for the war? Or are you saying both of them are making equal sacrifices?

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
Except i wasnt debating. 😂 I stopped debating the moment you called yourself a pussy.

I just proved that I was willing to debate whilst you were running and crying. Just for the board to see the facts of what happened here.

Ah, and now we're back to the schoolyard insults. Classical Josh. Everytime you resort to insults I know I've beaten you in the debate. This is when you resort to attacking the other guy because you're unable to defend your own arguments.

Originally posted by FrothByte
Ah, and now we're back to the schoolyard insults. Classical Josh. Everytime you resort to insults I know I've beaten you in the debate. This is when you resort to attacking the other guy because you're unable to defend your own arguments.

Once again you missed the big elephant in the room. You NEVER DEBATED 😂

I use insults when i get tired of beating you with reason and evidence

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
Once again you missed the big elephant in the room. You NEVER DEBATED 😂

I use insults when i get tired of beating you with reason and evidence

I did debate. I said when talking specifically about self-sacrifice - Thor has better feats of this than Cap. You disagreed. We debated. I don't know why you're having trouble comprehending this.

Originally posted by Silent Master
You claimed Loki intended to destroy all of humanity, prove it.

That's irrelevant. Nitpicking is a logical fallacy. Did you know that?

Originally posted by FrothByte
You don't make the rules here h1. It doesn't become a tie just because you said so. Destroyer stopped wrecking stuff after it "killed" Thor which proves it wasn't out to destroy all humanity.

That's irrelevant to what I posted. Try again.