Joker (2019)

Saw it the other day. Much better then expected.

I'd go as far as to call it a potential masterpiece of character building. It's the little things, like how Arthur Fleck slouches in his day to day, and when he starts to snap he's dancing.

I'll let a friend from my Facebook ring do the talking:

https://touch.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=2671639739523778&id=100000333333404&ref=m_notif&notif_t=feed_comment

And yeah, the mental health message was really strong, such as the way people insist the mentally impaired act like they aren't. Or how when government cuts happen, it often hits social services, leaving the needy no where to turn.

Originally posted by Isaiah90
I was skeptical of the movie at first. I debated whether or not i should watch it. I used to think the Joker didn't need an origin story because i felt he was more mysterious that way. When i thought about it, he had one in the Killing Joke so he’s not that mysterious. That's why i watched Joker, even if i wished another villain would have his/her own movie. I didn’t think this movie’s Joker would be on the same level as Heath Ledger’s Joker. Nonetheless, i gave it a try.

I was mind-blown by this movie and my expectations were blown away. This movie tackled some deep issues like society's hypocrisy, lies about equality, child abuse, mental illness, etc. I was shocked at some scenes which crossed some boundaries. What made this movie great was how it didn't just tell the story of how a crook fell in a vat of chemicals and became the Joker. It made me think about alot. It had loads of emotion and some ambiguity. When the Joker laughs after a tragedy, its hard to tell if he's laughing or crying.

The scenes about mental illness spoke some harsh truths about how mentally ill people are treated today. Hence, why Arthur Fleck wrote in his notebook “the worst part about mental illness is people expecting you to behave as if you don’t have one.” Arthur Fleck tried hard to get help for his mental illness, but it seemed like society showed no support. They don’t want to acknowledge mental illness exists much less understand it. It’s as if people just want the mentally ill to be locked up in a mental institution and be done with it.

It also had some harsh truths about equality. Society cares more about status than about equality. The poor are expendable.

People criticized it for its violence, but i think they were disturbed. Because there was no Batman, we had no one to look to as a savior. The movie forced us to look at ourselves and our relationship to people like the Joker. It raises disturbing questions like how much of a role we play in creating someone like the Joker and how accurate are his perceptions? Throughout the film, it was hard to tell if the Joker was seeing things correctly or just being delusional.

People criticized the film for this Joker not fully embracing the evil and chaos in him like say Heath Ledger’s Joker. I don’t think this criticism is valid. People forget this is a different Joker before he became THE Joker. That’s why its an origin story. I was about to criticize this Joker for his lack of clever punchlines and criminal schemes, but realized that’s the point. The Joker was a failed comedian trying to get by in the world. He didn’t have any intent to turn to a life of crime. We see a very vulnerable side of the Joker that’s not there in most Batman films.

I loved the original soundtrack. It reminded me alot of the theme of the Dark Knight live action franchise. I thought the song “smile” by Jimmy Durante was iconic and perfect for the film.

It had some flaws. I disliked how the laughing and references to Taxi driver were a bit overdone. I also thought the Joker’s love interest didn’t need to be there. It was not how i imagined it would be. I thought the comic’s version of the Joker’s wife made more of an impact than Joker’s girlfriend. I thought the film could’ve been much darker had it taken a different approach with his love interest based on the comics. I disliked how some songs like those of Frank Sinatra didn’t fit well with the theme of the film. I didn’t think the song “smile” was placed in its proper scene. It could’ve been better.

Perhaps the movie’s biggest flaw was how it focused too much on the Joker’s mental illness rather than his emotional turmoil. I was expecting to see a blend of emotions and mental illness. Lots of people have already included hallucinations or the “reality vs. fantasy” motif in films on mental illness. It’s become too cliche. The film could’ve been more powerful if it stuck to creating drama while balancing out the Joker’s mental illness.

One thing I liked, is how they kept the Thomas Wayne connection open to interpretation.

Was his mom simply crazy? Or did he use his position to cover up an indiscretion?

Was he the guy that hit child Arthur? They established Thomas is violent, when he punched him in the bathroom.

Originally posted by CaveDude33211
Hollywood is suddenly "getting a billion dollars" with every other movie they're releasing.

Truth is, people are starting to pay less attention to actors than in the past, and YouTube and being able to produce your own cheap movies with CG-technology has rendered Hollywood obsolete.

Hollywood is now in the practice of spending millions of dollars to buy theater-seats in order to artificially-manipulate ticket-sales.

Just like with The Lion King, for example.

Endgame and Joker didn't make a billion dollars - but Hollywood is scared of losing relevancy, so they want you to think it did.

Rise Of Skywalker is going to be boycotted to a large extent - and Terminator: Dark Fate will flop.

But they will both end up "making a billion dollars".

If this was true, why is Terninator showing low figures, instead of a billion dollars?

Originally posted by cdtm
One thing I liked, is how they kept the Thomas Wayne connection open to interpretation.

Was his mom simply crazy? Or did he use his position to cover up an indiscretion?

Was he the guy that hit child Arthur? They established Thomas is violent, when he punched him in the bathroom.

Plenty of stuff open to interpretation in that film.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Plenty of stuff open to interpretation in that film.

It's funny how people were up in arms over an origin story ruining Joker's ambiguous origin, and end up getting another ambiguous origin.

The best part is his hallucinations. For all we know, that ENTIRE MOVIE only happened in his head, while he was sitting in Arkham.

I’m still working out my feelings about JOKER, which are mainly positive. Regarding the ending which involves Thomas & Martha Wayne’s death, my issue is that it changes the Batman mythos. Batman dedicated his life to restoring order to Gotham City because his parents died in a random assault by a mugger – even as an adult, he’s still a child trying to force order on a world he doesn’t really understand. But now, the attack in this film isn’t random – Thomas Wayne is targeted and killed because of who he is and what he represents as part of Gotham’s rich establishment. The riot may be chaotic, but it’s driven by ideology. So now the Joker isn’t the chaotic agent anymore who came into being because of Batman’s work bringing order and justice back to the people of Gotham (which is why even after all these decades, he still has no identity beyond being an agent of chaos) – he precedes Batman instead. Which is what the comics have never been about.
Of course, the out here could be that Arthur Fleck isn’t the real Joker, but the figure who will inspire the true Joker to emerge a couple of decades later, when Bruce Wayne finally debuts as Batman. Fleck would be an old man by then, too; not the worthy recurring foil he should be.

Tonally, the film reminds me most of Daredevil season 1, with the realistic street level and city politics at play making this world seem a hell made by humans. And it's closest companion film is Logan, which despite what Marvel & Fox would claim is an out of continuity film.

The thing of it is, from Bruce's perspective, it could still be random.

At his age, he may not have any idea about the social politics of the city. I mean, when I was his age, I sure wasn't watching CNN, or thinking about complex social issues. I was pretending to be an astronaut.

Gitesh Pandya
@GiteshPandya
Intl mkts for #Joker also still holding up exceptionally well week after week. $37M this wknd, down only 24%, lifting intl total to huge $634.4M and global #boxoffice to sensational $934M. Only about 10 days away from the ONE BILLION MARK...and that's with no China release!

1 billion is a lock. If it were to have a China release, it could have earned 1.2 billion.

Originally posted by cdtm
I was pretending to be an astronaut.

You still are, you just need booze for that 😉

Originally posted by Senor Cage
1 billion is a lock. If it were to have a China release, it could have earned 1.2 billion.

Originally posted by Senor Cage
1 billion is a lock. If it were to have a China release, it could have earned 1.2 billion.

Doubt it would make much in China.

Originally posted by Senor Cage
1 billion is a lock. If it were to have a China release, it could have earned 1.2 billion.

Originally posted by CaveDude33211
Hollywood is suddenly "getting a billion dollars" with every other movie they're releasing.

Truth is, people are starting to pay less attention to actors than in the past, and YouTube and being able to produce your own cheap movies with CG-technology has rendered Hollywood obsolete.

Hollywood is now in the practice of spending millions of dollars to buy theater-seats in order to artificially-manipulate ticket-sales.

Just like with The Lion King, for example.

Endgame and Joker didn't make a billion dollars - but Hollywood is scared of losing relevancy, so they want you to think it did.

Rise Of Skywalker is going to be boycotted to a large extent - and Terminator: Dark Fate will flop.

But they will both end up "making a billion dollars".

Sounds like rants from the same conspiracy corner that also claimed Rotten Tomatoes was bought off by Disney to give low critical ratings to previous DC films. 🙄

Practically everything would be a hit if Hollywood studios bought vast amounts of theatre seats to ensure all their films were huge hits. But we still get bombs and flops every year.

Originally posted by juggernaut74
It's playing pretty good in the Asian markets so China might have boosted it to 1.2 billion.

1.2 billion would certainly be a lock if it was released in China. Doing 1 billion without the aid of 3-D and China is historical, especially considering it's a rated R film.

DC & Warners could be on the right track again; this will be their fourth film to gross 1 billion since The Dark Knight in 2008 (Of course, Disney & Marvel have had 9 films grossing over a billion since The Avengers in 2012, and two of those cracked 2 billion 😄 ) Now, if they could just solve their problems making films where the heroes team up (Batman V. Superman, Justice League 😛 )

Joker is in some special company of comic related movies - Guardians Of The Galaxy, Deadpool, Logan, Wonder Woman, Black Panther, Aquaman, Captain Marvel. These were all films that either struggled for years to get greenlit because the typical studio head thinks there isn't an audience for it, it's too weird a risk, or it's just fear of an R-rating as a box office killer. In every case, the box office haul was huge, beyond what anyone could imagine.

Rewatched the last scene where he appears on the talk show. Great shit gonna buy this for sure

Scott Mendelson
✔
@ScottMendelson
Box Office: #JokerMovie Tops $955 Million Worldwide (On A $62.5 Million Budget) And Becomes The Most Profitable Comic Book Movie Ever via @Forbes by @ScottMendelson https://www.forbes.com/sites/scottmendelson/2019/11/08/box-office-dc-films-joker-tops-955-million-to-become-more-profitable-than-deadpool-venom-and-batman/

Deserves every cent. This film is a masterpiece. 👆

Well not Actual profit.

But most profitable multiplier over its budget.