Originally posted by Surtur
Also according to the people behind the movie the thing Finn was trying to tell Rey was that he was force sensitive. Might as well have shouted "water is wet!!!".
Thats obviously BS. Why would you shout that when sinking in quicksand type thing thinking youre about to die.
Theyre just shining away from them restarting the plot of Finn obviously having feelings for Rey, but then forgetting to settle that storyline.
The discourse around this movie and the "sequel trilogy" is fascinating if not out-right disgusting. It gives me a headache thinking about Star Wars. There are so many weird little sub-groups of hate and anger over them that it's overwhelming to the point of parody.
I get such a pang of what I can only describe as "second-hand embarrassment" whenever anyone talks about being "real fans" and how they are "taking back canon." It makes me cringe.
I didn't really "get" TLJ when it came out because it was something different and I felt blind-sided. It took me awhile to understand the messages of the flick and how it was a direct response to nostalgia. It's really ****ing smart. But a lot people (not EVERY critic) were mad because it mixed things up and made bolder choices.
This most recent film gave up any sort of creativity in order to wank people - the loudest assholes in the room. And watching it happen in real time at the theater was such a bizarre experience. One of the more surreal moments in the movie theater itself was this older guy (had to be in his late 40's or something) clapping at cameos and "woo-ing." There was something incredibly sad about it all. I don't mean that in a hateful way like "**** that guy how sad is his life that he enjoys things" but in a way I can't really put my finger on.
Originally posted by Quincy
The discourse around this movie and the "sequel trilogy" is fascinating if not out-right disgusting. It gives me a headache thinking about Star Wars. There are so many weird little sub-groups of hate and anger over them that it's overwhelming to the point of parody.I get such a pang of what I can only describe as "second-hand embarrassment" whenever anyone talks about being "real fans" and how they are "taking back canon." It makes me cringe.
I didn't really "get" TLJ when it came out because it was something different and I felt blind-sided. It took me awhile to understand the messages of the flick and how it was a direct response to nostalgia. It's really ****ing smart. But a lot people (not EVERY critic) were mad because it mixed things up and made bolder choices.
This most recent film gave up any sort of creativity in order to wank people - the loudest assholes in the room. And watching it happen in real time at the theater was such a bizarre experience. One of the more surreal moments in the movie theater itself was this older guy (had to be in his late 40's or something) clapping at cameos and "woo-ing." There was something incredibly sad about it all. I don't mean that in a hateful way like "**** that guy how sad is his life that he enjoys things" but in a way I can't really put my finger on.
Critics loved TLJ. Fans didn't. Rotten Tomatoes critic score: 91%. Audience score: 43%.
The movie was shit, and I say this fully admitting a small but vocal minority of people hated it for all the wrong reasons. The thing is, toxic fans tend to be used in order to side step legitimate critiques of the film.
And some people have extreme reactions to star wars, I've learned to tune it out or just laugh.
Originally posted by Surtur
Critics loved TLJ. Fans didn't. Rotten Tomatoes critic score: 91%. Audience score: 43%.The movie was shit, and I say this fully admitting a small but vocal minority of people hated it for all the wrong reasons. The thing is, toxic fans tend to be used in order to side step legitimate critiques of the film.
And some people have extreme reactions to star wars, I've learned to tune it out or just laugh.
But I know fans who do love TLJ - I'm literally one of them. People definitely spat vitriol and venom at that movie though beyond just "I didn't like this film." It's why it was so heavily review bombed by fans. The "legitimate critiques" you mention are difficult to pin down because the people I know who didn't like it for the stupid "I dont think Rose Tico is pretty and how come the ladies are yelling at the boys" typically provide their critiques as "It doesn't feel like Star Wars."
I'm not saying people are either right or wrong for liking it either and don't want to come off as such, but I am curious as to what it is people dislike critically about the film in specific. But even then it's like, who's willing to even change their mind?
To be fair the audience score for Last Jedi on RT was likely review bombed.
It did however receive an A cinemascore though.
That said, its box office was down a whopping 35% from Force Awakens and its Home entertainment sales down over 50%.
Rise of Skywalker looks like it will perform even worse, so the pattern of audiences leaving this franchise is quite clear throughout the course of this trilogy.
I agree that Rose's looks are not super relevant, she wasn't playing a space fashion model. My critique of Rose was that she just wasn't interesting and was actually an annoying character. I was glad she was sidelined in this movie.
I don't think this trilogy presented us with characters we could get emotionally invested in. I think this was especially true in TLJ. Some of it was comical and the problem there is that the scenes that were comical were not meant to be. Snoke's death scene was ridiculous lol. It made the scene with Darth Sidious wriggling around while he gets tossed down a shaft look like Shakespeare.
Characters like Holdo make decisions that make no sense and seem like they are made in order to get the maximum number of people killed. The plot itself was weak.
I think ep 9 was the best of the trilogy, which is strange because I think the prequels are mostly shit, but the final movie in that trilogy was also the best. I guess history repeats itself. Though I think revenge of the sith was the better of the two.
For the record when it comes to the OT, I'm way more of a fan of ep 5 and 6 than 4.
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Dialogues were horrible, for one.Chewie was the only character I cared about in TLJ.
I don't know I guess dialogue can be hit or miss when it comes to Star Wars. George Lucas has always been notoriously bad with script writing. But I feel like some of the conversational beats and dialogue in TLJ were some of the strongest in the series. Luke and Yoda discussing failure and being teachers is a highlight of the entire saga bar none.
Chewie being the only character you care about - are you saying he's your favorite? Or like what you're trying to say is the new trilogy didn't successfully get you invested in the new characters?
How does one not care about Luke Skywalker man that's shocking. The culmination of Kylo Ren and Rey's scene with Snoke is such a quality character moment in terms of story-telling, its wild.
Originally posted by Surtur
My critique of Rose was that she just wasn't interesting and was actually an annoying character. I was glad she was sidelined in this movie.
👆
So was I.
It was a very pleasant surprise, actually. I feared Abrams would give her even a bigger role, as the early rumours were saying.
Originally posted by Surtur
I think ep 9 was the best of the trilogy, which is strange because I think the prequels are mostly shit, but the final movie in that trilogy was also the best. I guess history repeats itself. Though I think revenge of the sith was the better of the two.
Same here.
Originally posted by Quincy
I don't know I guess dialogue can be hit or miss when it comes to Star Wars. George Lucas has always been notoriously bad with script writing. But I feel like some of the conversational beats and dialogue in TLJ were some of the strongest in the series. Luke and Yoda discussing failure and being teachers is a highlight of the entire saga bar none.Chewie being the only character you care about - are you saying he's your favorite? Or like what you're trying to say is the new trilogy didn't successfully get you invested in the new characters?
How does one not care about Luke Skywalker man that's shocking. The culmination of Kylo Ren and Rey's scene with Snoke is such a quality character moment in terms of story-telling, its wild.
The film was a huge disservice to Luke as a character.
Originally posted by Quincy
I don't know I guess dialogue can be hit or miss when it comes to Star Wars.
C'mon, Quincy.
If the episode starts with "your mom" joke, you know it's bad.
Originally posted by Quincy
Chewie being the only character you care about - are you saying he's your favorite? Or like what you're trying to say is the new trilogy didn't successfully get you invested in the new characters?
The latter.
Even though I did enjoy TFA, I couldn't care about the characters in TLJ.
Originally posted by Quincy
How does one not care about Luke Skywalker man that's shocking. The culmination of Kylo Ren and Rey's scene with Snoke is such a quality character moment in terms of story-telling, its wild.
...
I can only hope you're being sarcastic with this one.
Originally posted by QuincyRight, because it's not the director's ****ing job to "make a direct response to nostalgia". The director's job was to make a Star Wars movie. Rian Johnson is/was free to make his own little documentary or youtube piece, deconstructing the franchise and shitting on the concept of fandom. You don't use a major installment of the franchise (literally the 8th movie in the ****ing series)... to shit on the franchise. When Chris Avellone wanted to show how whack Star Wars is, he didn't make Episode 6, he made KOTOR 2 (which is widely considered the best Star Wars game ever made).
I didn't really "get" TLJ when it came out because it was something different and I felt blind-sided. It took me awhile to understand the messages of the flick and how it was a direct response to nostalgia. It's really ****ing smart. But a lot people (not EVERY critic) were mad because it mixed things up and made bolder choices.
To use a metaphor: if you build a house from the ground up, and then you pay a guy to come in and install a set of windows, and as soon he's inside your house he starts ripping out your carpet because he thinks its ugly, replaces your drapes, throws out all your silverware and furniture and starts lecturing you on proper home decor, would you vibe with that and be like "damn dude, thanks for telling me how much I suck" or would you be like "nigga I just paid you to install some windows, get the **** out" and fire his ass on the spot?
He and by extension his movie earned every iota of hate they've ever received. TLJ being basically retconned out of history is karmic justice.