Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
I don't understand your confusion. Any franchise as large as SW will have extreme fans due to the sheer size of the fanbase. However, TLJ turned the commentary espescially toxic, and anyone who understands human nature would expect as much.People become emotionally attached to concepts, ideas, and even fictional characters (Luke). Whether this is right or wrong doesn't matter, it's a part of human nature. TLJ tore that down violently, without any real remorse, and did so in the 8th episode of a 9 movie series. Rian knew what he was doing, and the Star Wars Universe is worse for it.
I'm not sure why calling people who enjoy the PT themes/narratives are assholes, but I'd argue your mentality is just as toxic.
Oh I'm not like...confused that people like things. I felt a weird level of confusion watching The Rise of Skywalker. It felt pandering and bizarre - surreal is how I described it.
When you say PT do you mean Prequel Trilogy? I mean the loud assholes in the room being like "Rose is a mongoloid" and sending death threats to literally anyone who is involved in creating these movies. I don't know how you'd equate that kind of toxic behavior to me saying "the discourse with this movie is fascinating, man - so weird"
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
He didn't grow. He regressed. It was a terrible representation of the Luke we knew. He was a weak, and whiny coward.We didn't have a single lightsaber fight with Luke aside from the brief scuffle with Rey. Luke Skywalker at no point had an actual Lightsaber fight against an opponent. I'm starting to recall the movie and all the missed opportunities. I've never been as confused and as disappointed in a movie before as I was for the TLJ.
That's...not how temptation works. Luke could always be described as whiny. Like that's one of the giant jokes in Star Wars fandom. I'd state this was the most self-assured Luke we've seen in a long time - wrong as he was for doubting the force.
As for your complaint about not having a lightsaber fight with Luke...
I don't know man that's pretty telling. The most important thing Luke Skywalker ever did was throw down his lightsaber so....like? I don't know man.
Originally posted by Tzeentch
Right, because it's not the director's ****ing job to "make a direct response to nostalgia". The director's job was to make a Star Wars movie. Rian Johnson is/was free to make his own little documentary or youtube piece, deconstructing the franchise and shitting on the concept of fandom. You don't use a major installment of the franchise (literally the 8th movie in the ****ing series)... to shit on the franchise. When Chris Avellone wanted to show how whack Star Wars is, he didn't make Episode 6, he made KOTOR 2 (which is widely considered the best Star Wars game ever made).To use a metaphor: if you build a house from the ground up, and then you pay a guy to come in and install a set of windows, and as soon he's inside your house he starts ripping out your carpet because he thinks its ugly, replaces your drapes, throws out all your silverware and furniture and starts lecturing you on proper home decor, would you vibe with that and be like "damn dude, thanks for telling me how much I suck" or would you be like "nigga I just paid you to install some windows, get the **** out" and fire his ass on the spot?
He and by extension his movie earned every iota of hate they've ever received. TLJ being basically retconned out of history is karmic justice.
Wait why do you think he was shitting on the concept of "fandom?"
Like the ending shot of the movie is literally a kid being inspired by the heroes of Star Wars.
Everyone thinks Kylo Ren's line of "let the past die" is some kind of thesis, but forget Kylo Ren is the bad-guy?
Again man like...I'm not trying to get everyone worked up but like...it's not being retconned like...that's canon stuff.
Originally posted by ares834
Not turn him into a pathetic shell of his former self or contradict his characterization?
I hear this a lot about Luke's characterization but to me the whole journey we go on with Luke is one with him failing or being overwhelmed or being tempted with violence and fear and ultimately choosing non-violence. It comes off to me that some fans had issue with Luke not being perfect or not being like...the ultimate hero guy. But like...he is, man. People took it personal when he was like "What did you think I was going to stare down the whole first order with a laser sword?" and then forget that he actually does that - AND by being the Luke of old - by doing it without violence. That's ****ing dope, dude.
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
I can only hope you're being sarcastic with this one.
No I really dig it. Rey spends the TFA and TLJ desperately looking for some kind of proof that she comes from somewhere important - that she has some grand destiny like in the heroes she grew up with (that the entire galaxy at this point has grown up with.) Like literally the worst thing in the world she could hear is "you're trash and you come from literal garbage." And then Kylo is like "you've been looking to belong but you ****ing dont - but to me you do." And then offers her a place to be - someone who values her for what she can do and who she is - and she ****ing rejects that shit because she's a god damn Jedi it's rad af.
I get it if you don't roll with it but that kind of story telling is lights out.