Originally posted by FrothByte
Because the person getting hit is actively trying to avoid getting hit. That's completely different from someone just standing still and allowing you to hit them.You seriously can't be this stupid can you?
Originally posted by h1a8
I think you are the stupid one here. You fail to comprehend English sentences. I used the term "flush hit".
Do you know the definition of a flush hit?
Most flush hits occur when the struck wasn't trying to avoid getting hit (they got caught). They did not see the strike coming.
That's not what flush hit means. Please cite your source.
Originally posted by FrothByte
That's not what flush hit means. Please cite your source.
I never gave the definition of a flush hit since I assumed you know what it means. I said Mostly occur when a fighter isn't actively trying to avoid getting hit.When a fighter is actively trying to avoid the strike then the strike doesn't land flush often.
Originally posted by h1a8
I never gave the definition of a flush hit since I assumed you know what it means. I said Mostly occur when a fighter isn't actively trying to avoid getting hit.When a fighter is actively trying to avoid the strike then the strike doesn't land flush often.
In short, your original statement doesn't really contradict what I said: That it's easy to knock someone out as long as they allow you to hit them and you know how to throw a punch.
He didn't punch Cap, he tasered him, once when Cap only had one usable hand, then twice in their exchange when a still holding back Cap was visibly winded and had already been tasered a two or three times in the group fight.
What are Rumlow's hand to hand feats in TWS? Having the advantage against Falcon I guess? What impressive physicals does he have? How hard can he hit? How fast is he? How is his chin?
He doesn't have nearly Batman's feats when it comes to this.
Originally posted by NemeBro
, then twice in their exchange when a still holding back Cap was visibly winded and had already been tasered a two or three times in the group fight.
1. Prove that Cap was holding back.
2. Cap was breathing heavier but didn't look winded. Heavier breathing != winded
3. There's no indication that getting tasered slowed down Cap at all.
I agree that Rumlow doesn't have much feats, but at least he was able to land blows on a super soldier who was clearly fighting back. Baleman is so slow that he needs fodder to stand still and present him their cheeks in order for him to land hits.
Originally posted by FrothByte
1. Prove that Cap was holding back.
Rumlow isn't dead.
Cap can punch hard and fast enough to send Ultron flying into a concrete pillar, shattering one side of it on impact. He can punch hard enough to dent and damage Ironman's armour.
And you're going to sit here and imply that Cap wasn't holding back on the very human Rumlow, that the punches Cap was throwing were of sufficient velocity to perform the aforementioned feats?
Please. 👇
2. Cap was breathing heavier but didn't look winded. Heavier breathing != winded
wind1
wind/Submit
verb
past tense: winded; past participle: winded
1.
cause (someone) to have difficulty breathing because of exertion or a blow to the stomach.
If he's breathing more heavily, he's at least a little winded my friend. But I'll be fair and say that Rumlow was also winded.
3. There's no indication that getting tasered slowed down Cap at all.
Other than Cap having trouble with a normal human afterwards? How do skilled humans typically do against super soldiers in the MCU otherwise? How did Okele (who is a considerably more formidable combatant than Rumlow) do against Killmonger with an entire group of warriors supporting her?
More to the point, the electrical current of a taser disrupts voluntary controls of one's muscles. It is the purpose of the weapon, and even a small taser can incapacitate a normal human, much less a large one like what Cap was hit with two or three times. In the ship scene Rumlow uses it to immediately knock out a man with a quick poke that lasted a fraction of a second.
Why are you adamant that it wouldn't hurt Cap or hinder his abilities?
I agree that Rumlow doesn't have much feats, but at least he was able to land blows on a super soldier who was clearly fighting back. Baleman is so slow that he needs fodder to stand still and present him their cheeks in order for him to land hits.
No, sorry friend, you don't get to pretend that Baleman's feats and accolades don't exist because of some bad choreography against mooks.
Baleman knocks Rumlow out. 👆
With or without armour. 🙂
Originally posted by NemeBro
Rumlow isn't dead.Cap can punch hard and fast enough to send Ultron flying into a concrete pillar, shattering one side of it on impact. He can punch hard enough to dent and damage Ironman's armour.
And you're going to sit here and imply that Cap wasn't holding back on the very human Rumlow, that the punches Cap was throwing were of sufficient velocity to perform the aforementioned feats?
Please. 👇
Cap has never pulverized another human being with a single blow despite the fact that he has no qualms about knifing them in the back or shooting them down. Do you expect me to believe that he always holds back during his h2h fights despite being willing to kill them by other means? Sorry but that just doesn't make sense.
Originally posted by NemeBro
wind1
wind/Submit
verb
past tense: winded; past participle: winded
1.
cause (someone) to have difficulty breathing because of exertion or a blow to the stomach.If he's breathing more heavily, he's at least a little winded my friend. But I'll be fair and say that Rumlow was also winded.
Other than Cap having trouble with a normal human afterwards? How do skilled humans typically do against super soldiers in the MCU otherwise? How did Okele (who is a considerably more formidable combatant than Rumlow) do against Killmonger with an entire group of warriors supporting her?
More to the point, the electrical current of a taser disrupts voluntary controls of one's muscles. It is the purpose of the weapon, and even a small taser can incapacitate a normal human, much less a large one like what Cap was hit with two or three times. In the ship scene Rumlow uses it to immediately knock out a man with a quick poke that lasted a fraction of a second.
Why are you adamant that it wouldn't hurt Cap or hinder his abilities?
Every single fighter on this planet will start breathing heavier after only a few seconds of decent fighting. That doesn't mean they are winded. Winded specifically means you are having trouble breathing. Breathing heavier doesn't automatically imply that, simply that your body is moving at an accelerated pace and needs more oxygen. There's a huge difference and Cap doesn't look winded in that scene, isn't even sweating. Yes, tazers hurt him a bit, doesn't mean he's suddenly slower than he should be. Nothing he does in that scene or afterwards indicates any degradation to his performance. If you want to claim such, then you have to provide proof instead of just your opinion. Cap is capable if taking multiple shots from IM and still continue fighting, there's no indication that a few hits from SHIELD agents and some tazing shots are enough to slow him down. In fact, he just proved that they don't.
Originally posted by NemeBro
No, sorry friend, you don't get to pretend that Baleman's feats and accolades don't exist because of some bad choreography against mooks.Baleman knocks Rumlow out. 👆
With or without armour. 🙂
Choreography is specifically what we use to analyze these fighters' skills, that's why we base our debates on feats SEEN in the movies. Bottom line is, Baleman is far slower than pretty much any decent MCU h2h fighter. He loses in an unarmored fight. Fully armored he might stand a chance, but Rumlow will still outpoint him. Whether that's enough for Rumlow to win will depend on how tough Baleman's armor is.
Originally posted by FrothByte
In short, your original statement doesn't really contradict what I said: That it's easy to knock someone out as long as they allow you to hit them and you know how to throw a punch.
No one wants to be hit. People are hit because they couldn't react fast enough or they did not see it coming.
Either way its hard to ko someone in both situations.
Hitting someone before they can react or hitting someone by surprise (same thing really).
Originally posted by FrothByteNow you are lowballing. I gave scenes where Batman moved plenty fast and with great skill.
1. Prove that Cap was holding back.
2. Cap was breathing heavier but didn't look winded. Heavier breathing != winded
3. There's no indication that getting tasered slowed down Cap at all.I agree that Rumlow doesn't have much feats, but at least he was able to land blows on a super soldier who was clearly fighting back. Baleman is so slow that he needs fodder to stand still and present him their cheeks in order for him to land hits.