Originally posted by riv6672
Thats not really true, as MM has no energy manip to speak of. Of course SS is no telepathic shape shifter.
You need to quote me again because obviously you didn't read it.
Surfer can do everything Jonn can do plus more. He wins w/o too much trouble.
I definitely did not state that Jonn can do everything Surfer can. So your very first point is wrong. Plus you should google Martian Vision which means Jonn does have some limited energy manipulation. But nowhere close to Surfer's energy manipulation.
Its laughable that you think Surfer doesn't have tp, and can't change his shape. I mean what I am about to show is nowhere near his limits its just basic for him.
Change his appearance and his friend's appearance with a thought.
http://i.imgur.com/oH4oqJJ.jpg
Surfer literally turns into snow.
http://i.imgur.com/QFpPQQk.jpg
Honestly you should feel really silly right now. But wait you mentioned telepathy. Oh my Surfer surely hasn't done things like:
Projected an illusion that tricked Galactus.
http://i.imgur.com/oEXFNch.jpg
Telepathically calms an entire planet.
http://i.imgur.com/uIGILkv.jpg
Brings world peace for a little while.
http://i.imgur.com/JpcUMIf.jpg
Frees himself from the goddess mind control and resists a mental blast from Moondragon with the mind gem.
http://i.imgur.com/RPTSdqV.jpg
So now you should feel real stupid.
Neither are truly jobbers, though I suppose MM is more so than SS.
A true, in-comics jobber, is someone who consistently underperforms compared to the power levels and potential formidability he is credited with having *in the comics*. Think Crusher creel or the Rhino. It isn't about someone underperforming compared to what his power set should 'realistically' allow them to do. If that were the case, then the Flash might be one of the ultimate jobbers ever.
To be more precise, you also have to look at how a given writer rates a character's potential, and then look at the performance under that writer. While MM is often said to be Superman's equal, he often performs at that level under the writer who credits him as such. You can't call it jobbing when MM loses to someone under a writer who never credited MM with having the advantage in the first place.
That said, there are more than a few examples where MM is said to be on Superman's level and then proceeds, inexplicably, to underperform said level. I'd say that happens more with MM than with SS, who typically is presented as Thor/Gladiator level and typically performs at that level. I don't really consider Surfer to be a huge jobber or even a poor fighter as many claim. The issue is simply that in theory his power set should allow him to steamroller almost anyone, and he doesn't. But that says more about certain readers who don't understand how comics work than the character itself.
Originally posted by Philosophía
*Surfer has most abilities J'onn has, but most of them at a lower level.
What can MM do that you think Surfer can't? I disagree about the lower levels, MM may have more tp feats, but Surfer has the feats to defend against it. I don't see any advantage for MM anywhere else.
Originally posted by SupermutantMoving the goalpost?
I disagree about the lower levels, MM may have more tp feats, but Surfer has the feats to defend against it.
You said Surfer can do "anything J'onn can". Not "Surfer can resist J'onn's telepathy" [which you'd be wrong about, too, but that's another talk].
Right here:
Surfer can do everything Jonn can do plus more.
Surfer cannot do, with his 'telepathic abilities', anywhere near what J'onn can.
Originally posted by Supermutant
I don't see any advantage for MM anywhere else.
You mean besides J'onn being stronger, faster and better shapeshifting [also lmao at you making it seem like that is a contest, because Surfer turned to snow]?
Originally posted by Philosophía
Moving the goalpost?You said Surfer can do "anything J'onn can". Not "Surfer can resist J'onn's telepathy" [which you'd be wrong about, too, but that's another talk].
Right here:
Surfer cannot do, with his 'telepathic abilities', anywhere near what J'onn can.
You mean besides J'onn being stronger, faster and better shapeshifting [also lmao at you making it seem like that is a contest, because Surfer turned to snow]?
not shifting anything, Surfer has every single power that MM has. tp, tk, shape shifting, etc. plus more like creating a black hole.
I stated he can do everything like tp, not that he has every exact feat of MM. The same thing with shape-shifting lol that you think I meant Surfer will have the exact same shape-shifting feats as MM.
no character is going to have the exact same feats as another. that's ridiculous to think I meant that.
