Originally posted by Darth Thor
Oh yeah completely forgot lolAt 0:25.
h1a8 loses again.
Watch him try to weasel his way out of this one by more trolling.
He is truly butthurt over MCU Thor Lmao.
Originally posted by Darth Thor
Oh yeah completely forgot lolAt 0:25.
h1a8 loses again.
Watch him try to weasel his way out of this one by more trolling.
He is truly butthurt over MCU Thor Lmao.
Originally posted by One Big Mob
Then do it, show how your way is actually more correct than actual correct conversions. Along with actual measurements from the bullet would help.I also don't think you even read my post correctly either, nor looked at anything I posted.
In any case, yes, please show us all every one of the steps you took. Show us the source material of the bullet. Show us how you came up with over 10 times the force of actual sites dedicated to finding out bullet ballistics. Show us how you reached 313 million tons of psi.
Actually prove your case h1. Don't threaten it. Show your work. Source your information. Actually painstakenly put in the work.It's calculations you're an expert on. This should be no issue. And since you know the bullet tip already, you should be able to link that as well. Wherever you found out the measurements of the bullet is highly relevant. Don't tell me whst it is when it's quite important in your opinion, show me with proof.
Before I begin, I have some questions for you first.
I can post sources to the mass and velocity of the bullet. (but everyone here probably knows those specs already) but the radius of the tip and distance the center of gravity point of the bullet travels before stopping were approximations.
The radius of the tip was a visual approximation from online pictures (pictures are posted below). I admit, the value I could be off by ±1mm. So I just decided to find a scale factor in order to find the true diameter of the tip.
The base diameter of the casing is listed to be 1.125 in (in the link I gave). I measured it to be 1+3/8 inch (or 1.375in). So the scale factor should be about
k = 1.125/1.375 = 9/11 (oh nooooo, not again!)
That means for what ever length measurement I take from the picture I must multiply by 9/11 to get the actual size.
I measured the diameter of the tip to be approximately 3/16th of an inch. This is an over measurement since I measured BELOW the tip where it is wider.
3/16 in = 4.7625mm. Multiplying by 9/11 we get that the actual diameter should be 3.9mm. So the radius is approximately 1.9mm.
Question 1:
So would you accept this new approximation for the tip, if not then I'll accept any reasonable approximation you choose? Here are the pictures
As to how I got the 1 in distance the center of gravity of the moves before the bullet is stopped came from looking at how bullets mushroom when they strike targets. I just realized that some bullets actually explode when striking objects (depending on the material of the bullet and the object). So if the bullets explode on Thor, instead of ricochet, then we can assume the distance is up to the full length of the bullet. The length of the bullet from the picture is about 3 inches. Lets just say 4 inches to be safe since less than an inch of the bullet is inside the casing. Multiplying by 9/11 gives 3.27 in.
Question 2:
So would 3.27in be an acceptable approximate stopping distance of the bullet? If not then what do you suggest it should be?
Let's first agree on what the these two values should be and I'll proceed to show all the work of the calculations (which I could have made errors and as to why I asked others to check).
20mm tungsten and armor piercing round failing to penetrate a plate of titanium.
I realize it's not from a Vulcan, but even the anzio (this is a typhon 20, which seems more powerful), only fires about 150fps slower than a Vulcan. As well as the tungsten round (duller) penetrates further than the sharpest ammo piercing round.
Second off, your new measurements wildly change your pressure. And you're still not using actual ballistics from the guns, but rather your own made up numbers. We have actual ballistics (42000), use those.
Third
Let's look at the bullets for example.
https://www.etsy.com/listing/271381264/20mm-vulan-cannon-ammo-size-d0es-matter
And
That is for all intents and purpose the same size bullet in a 308 win. Let's look at the diameter here between three different bullets. On my fmj, I had 1.40. On my centerfire American Eagle, I had 1.98. On my centerfire remington, I had 2.92.
I will leave a picture of what 3.9 looks like in comparison to the fmj. In all honesty, it's probably above 4mm.
I can show pics of all the measurements of the tips if you need them as well.
Forth, the radius isn't a perfect point that follows a natural progression. It's almost flat at the end.
What I mean by that last part is that it's not 1.9 that will make the initial contact, it will be almost the entire diameter. Which means the radius is all but useless in the equation.
Seems pretty easy to figure out tbh. 42k pounds of force over a width of the diameter and the length converted to pressure. Even if it was for whatever reason 313 million tons of pressure, titanium plates can stop it. Which would mean pressure is a completely useless metric to figure out the stopping power of bullets and you only brought it up to make them sound more impressive. And you did it wrong as well.
"Let's measure bullet force wrongly in a way it's never been measured before"
You going to figure out the psi of a planet exploding next? Somehow you only get 10 times the amount of a bullet or something. That'd be tops.
Originally posted by ShadowFyre
Why are we debating bullets again? Is there an actual reason for it or is it just to show off H1 math skills again?
Because h1 is a troll, which he proved once again by ignoring Darth Thor's post where he posted this clip.
Originally posted by One Big MobI most likely made an error as I used programs to do the conversions. This time ill do everything by hand.
What I mean by that last part is that it's not 1.9 that will make the initial contact, it will be almost the entire diameter. Which means the radius is all but useless in the equation.Seems pretty easy to figure out tbh. 42k pounds of force over a width of the diameter and the length converted to pressure. Even if it was for whatever reason 313 million tons of pressure, titanium plates can stop it. Which would mean pressure is a completely useless metric to figure out the stopping power of bullets and you only brought it up to make them sound more impressive. And you did it wrong as well.
"Let's measure bullet force wrongly in a way it's never been measured before"
You going to figure out the psi of a planet exploding next? Somehow you only get 10 times the amount of a bullet or something. That'd be tops.
I know that the diameter will initially make contact. The estimated diameter is 3.9mm. Is this acceptable? The tip is circular.
I was shocked when I first seen the results, so I most likely made an error.
Originally posted by Silent Master
Because h1 is a troll, which he proved once again by ignoring Darth Thor's post where he posted this clip.
We have no idea whether Thor was hit or not. It wasn't shown.
Originally posted by h1a8
We have no idea whether Thor was hit or not. It wasn't shown.
Called it.
Originally posted by Silent Master
H1 will claim that there's no proof any of those bullets actually hit Thor, even though that's obviously the intent of the scene.Proving once again he doesn't actually care about the intent of the people making the movie, just what he can claim is their intent when it fits his argument.
Originally posted by h1a8Do your math.
I most likely made an error as I used programs to do the conversions. This time ill do everything by hand.I know that the diameter will initially make contact. The estimated diameter is 3.9mm. Is this acceptable? The tip is circular.
I was shocked when I first seen the results, so I most likely made an error.
You were shocked, yet you didn't think that maybe your math was off and passed it off as fact anyway? You didn't think that maybe the sites meant specifically for ballistics were a little bit more on the nose with the force of a bullet?
We have the actual force, a way to convert that into psi with the diameter and length. I don't know why you keep threatening with your math when the actual psi takes less than a minute to figure out. No one is stopping you however from proving your point. You already switched up your base numbers tremendously anyway so I know for a fact you won't come anywhere close to 313 million tons.
Stop stalling and do it. Then we can talk about it.
Called it.
Originally posted by Silent Master
H1 will claim that there's no proof any of those bullets actually hit Thor, even though that's obviously the intent of the scene.Proving once again he doesn't actually care about the intent of the people making the movie, just what he can claim is their intent when it fits his argument.
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11113/111136785/6054692-img_1418.jpg
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11113/111136785/6054691-img_1417.jpg
He gets hit in the leg and falls down. If Ultron missed a stationary Thor in a storm of bullets but hit Quicksilver though...
There's also the fact that Hulk utterly tanked it and Thor with his various upgrades is at least as durable as Hulk. He's certainly not far enough below that bullets that bounce off Hulk's skin would tear straight through Thor anyway.
Plus iirc, this was 30mm ammo. Which is way more powerful than a Vulcan.
Originally posted by One Big Mob
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11113/111136785/6054692-img_1418.jpg
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11113/111136785/6054691-img_1417.jpgHe gets hit in the leg and falls down. If Ultron missed a stationary Thor in a storm of bullets but hit Quicksilver though...
There's also the fact that Hulk utterly tanked it and Thor with his various upgrades is at least as durable as Hulk. He's certainly not far enough below that bullets that bounce off Hulk's skin would tear straight through Thor anyway.
Plus iirc, this was 30mm ammo. Which is way more powerful than a Vulcan.
We didn't actually see Quicksilver being hit with any bullets though, so using H1's logic. Those were not bullet holes in Quicksilver, they were actually an over-enthusiastic application of stigmata.
Thor not being able to tank bullets is small stuff compared to this little diddy
Originally posted by h1a8
Here's some math and physics.
A M61 Vulcan can fire 0.1kg armor piercing bullets at a rate of 100 rounds per second at a muzzle velocity of about 1000m/s.
The radius of the circular tip of the bullet is about 1mm (or 0.001m).Let's calculate the force that would be exerted on Thor's head if it were to stop the bullet in less than 1in (or 0.0254m) stopping distance. This is the distance the bullet's center of gravity travels after the tip of the bullet makes contact with Thor.
Average stopping Force = Delta KE / stopping distance
= 1/2(0.1kg)(1000m/s)^2 /(0.0254m)
= 221 tons of forceBut the PEAK of this average stopping Force (more than 216 tons of force) is initially applied at the tip of the bullet the moment the bullet starts to deform.
Peak Pressure = Peak Force /Area of tip
> 221 tons/ (pi x (0.001m)^2]
= [b]313 million tons per square inchSo give me feats where Thor was shown to withstand pressures on his body above 313 millions tons per square inch. [/B]
