Count Dooku vs Darth Vader (VOTE)

Started by RealistRacism7 pages

I was kidding Nadd. I've seen the quotes vomited out on CV plenty of times, and Ant has methodically destroyed them all.

Not only those quotes are misunderstood. But Lucas' too.

Originally posted by Bentley
He got both his hands chopped off and Sheev then revealed his betrayal, essentially leaving him unarmed and broken facing the two strongest force users in the galaxy. You compare this to getting a man into your wife's bed and pretend there is some degree to accuracy to it.

By your absurd amount of reaching you could apply the term to Snoke as much 👆

He could have blurted out Palpatine is the Sith Lord you naive little French man. To just allow someone to betray you to the enemy a Jedi and not reveal his true identity was a choice. He allowed it. He deserved his death.

No, Snoke actively imposed his willpower on others Dooku was truly subservient to Sidious even right before a death he saw coming. Try to understand the term and how it is applied. You Frenchmen could not survive in the greatest nation on the planet with your naïveté.

Originally posted by RealistRacism
Wait, how many quotes state Vader is more powerful than Anakin? I've suddenly forgotten and need someone to tell me ten more times. But don't actually post the quotes, just tell me about them in every thread okay?
😂

"Many years later, Obi-Wan and Darth Vader duel a second time. The Sith Lord is now more experienced and powerful."

"VADER COMPLETED HIS MEDITATION and opened his eyes. His pale, flame-savaged face stared back at him from out of the reflective black surface of his pressurized meditation chamber. Without the neural connection to his armor, he was conscious of the stumps of his legs, the ruin of his arm, the perpetual pain in his flesh. He welcomed it. Pain fed his hate, and hate fed his strength. Once, as a Jedi, he had meditated to find peace. Now he meditated to sharpen the edges of his anger.
He stared at his reflection a long time. His injuries had deformed his body, left it a ruin, but they’d perfected his spirit, strengthening his connection to the Force. Suffering had birthed insight."

“This is a fight you cannot win, Darth. Your power has matured since I taught you, but I too have grown much since our parting. If my blade finds its mark, you will cease to exist. But if you cut me down, I will only become more powerful. Heed my words.”

I'm not saying I agree that Vader>Anakin, I'm still undecided on the matter. But these quotes seem pretty indisputable (especially the first one) so I'm curious as to how Ant "methodically destroyed" them.

I'm not 100% sure, but I believe the second quote is from Lords of the Sith, a canon novel.
As for the third quote, not only is it Ben's view, it says Vader's power "matured", which doesn't immediately translate to "oh, he clearly grew more powerful".
The first quote is the only one from the three I could consider legit, but then again, it's referring to Mustafar Vader. It boils down to whether you believe Mustafar Vader was or wasn't hindered, which opens a whole new can of worms.
I would really appreciate it if someone could actually post all the quotes that state or at least suggest Vader > Anakin. Apart from these ones, I am only familiar with two that likely don't even refer to KF Vader.

Yup and the second one (the canon one), is from Vaders point of view and speaking of his connection to the Force, which doesnt necessarily mean hes better in a Lightsaber fight given his injuries. And thats even if Vader is to be believed. He may just be fooling himself.

xPRIMEx

Palpatine and other Sith Lords hold the idea that the Dark Side>Light Side. What Kenobi(and the book) said was just alluding to the fact of Anakin shifting more and more to the Dark Side of The Force.

Kenobi's statement was that both of them became legit Force masters.

Originally posted by Valpoorion
I'm not 100% sure, but I believe the second quote is from Lords of the Sith, a canon novel.
As for the third quote, not only is it Ben's view, it says Vader's power "matured", which doesn't immediately translate to "oh, he clearly grew more powerful".
The first quote is the only one from the three I could consider legit, but then again, it's referring to Mustafar Vader. It boils down to whether you believe Mustafar Vader was or wasn't hindered, which opens a whole new can of worms.
I would really appreciate it if someone could actually post all the quotes that state or at least suggest Vader > Anakin. Apart from these ones, I am only familiar with two that likely don't even refer to KF Vader.

https://www.writeurl.com/text/smpbu47ka72uac15kyfd/jhwec69hhfkawwrfbvbp

^ Seems to be comparing directly to Mustafa Anakin, who is specifically noted there to have a weakness OT Vader does not have.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
^ Seems to be comparing directly to Mustafa Anakin, who is specifically noted there to have a weakness OT Vader does not have.

More than half the quotes do not refer to exclusively to Mustafar Vader, but him as a whole not to mention the fact that Mustafar Vader wasn't weakened.

Originally posted by DarthCaedus77
More than half the quotes do not refer to exclusively to Mustafar Vader, but him as a whole not to mention the fact that Mustafar Vader wasn't weakened.

The very quote you posted implies Mustafa Anakin was suffering from a weakness Kenobi was able to exploit.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
The very quote you posted implies Mustafa Anakin was suffering from a weakness Kenobi was able to exploit.

It really doesn't.

By weaknesses it's referring to overconfidence on Anakin's part which was a weakness.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Dooku never actively resisted he was submissive. If I punch someone in the face and they do not fight back that is not proof of me winning a fight in which they engage me.

If you can even throw a punch lol

quan would destroy most of the forums 1 on 1 tbh

Originally posted by quanchi112
He could have blurted out Palpatine is the Sith Lord you naive little French man. To just allow someone to betray you to the enemy a Jedi and not reveal his true identity was a choice. He allowed it. He deserved his death.

No, Snoke actively imposed his willpower on others Dooku was truly subservient to Sidious even right before a death he saw coming. Try to understand the term and how it is applied. You Frenchmen could not survive in the greatest nation on the planet with your naïveté.

So blurting out that Sheev is a Sith would work how exactly?

Anakin had no reason to believe his enemy right there and it'd have seen like a cowardly and desperate tactic. Dooku was unaware of how close Anakin was getting to the dark side and could've reasonably expected him to take him alive. Basically you want Dooku to become a coward that betrays his convictions on destroying the jedi order in a lame moment of desperation. Ultimately even in Death Dooku's goal ended up being fulfilled.

Snoke in the other hand thought he was so hot he wouldn't be betrayed. He never figured out he was outplayed which makes him seem naive.

Originally posted by DarthCaedus77
By weaknesses it's referring to overconfidence on Anakin's part which was a weakness.

Nope it stated said weakness. Being “overwhelmed” by rage. OT Vader has more control over his rage and wasn't “overwhelmed” by it. Hence OT Vader is likely > Mustafa Vader, which seems to be what the quote you posted is stating.

Can someone post the quote(s) that support Anakin>Vader?

Originally posted by Bentley
So blurting out that Sheev is a Sith would work how exactly?

Anakin had no reason to believe his enemy right there and it'd have seen like a cowardly and desperate tactic. Dooku was unaware of how close Anakin was getting to the dark side and could've reasonably expected him to take him alive. Basically you want Dooku to become a coward that betrays his convictions on destroying the jedi order in a lame moment of desperation. Ultimately even in Death Dooku's goal ended up being fulfilled.

Snoke in the other hand thought he was so hot he wouldn't be betrayed. He never figured out he was outplayed which makes him seem naive.

Alert Anakin who the mysterious Sith Lord they had been searching for. Even later in the film he turned him in.

The point was not whether he would believe him the point is to defend his life. He allowed his death to happen with no will to object.

Dooku did not want to die. He was betrayed and did not even offer any resistance with any of the intel he had. Would not be hard to convince Anakin through his knowledge to question Sidious. But he cucked which is a choice to allow someone to cheat. You not grasping cuckolding is a choice kind of says a lot about your cognitive acumen tbh.

Snoke was overconfident which I have always said but he never chose to allow it. Dooku did not object and was blatantly betrayed and just took it. Cucked to the bitter end.