Originally posted by xPRIMEx
Can someone post the quote(s) that support Anakin>Vader?
Heres one in the ESB audio commentary from Lucas:
Originally posted by Darth Thor
"He's lost a lot of power and a lot of potential to become more powerful than the Emperor"
Notice how he says Power AND Potential. So hes not just referring to potential. And this is as of Empire Strikes Back. Lucas still feels hes lost power that hasnt been regained by this point even.
Originally posted by Darth Thor
Nope it stated said weakness. Being “overwhelmed” by rage. OT Vader has more control over his rage and wasn't “overwhelmed” by it. Hence OT Vader is likely > Mustafa Vader, which seems to be what the quote you posted is stating.
It says Obi Wan took advantage of his rage, his rage overwhelming him likely refers to him becoming angry to the point of overconfidence which would fit with Obi Wan taking advantage of it. In addition tons of the quotes refer to Vafder overall not just at mustafar if you'd bothered to scroll down. In addition Mustafar VAader was still a 9 [As in as powerful as the emperor] and ragdolled Kenobi teice and destroyed him with contemptous ease before Kenobi recieved an amp.
Originally posted by Darth Thor
"He's lost a lot of power and a lot of potential to become more powerful than the Emperor"
ohshit.jpg
That actually ends the debate, not that there should have ever been one, lmao. Anakin > Vader.
Can you direct me to where exactly in the ESB commentary he says this, and which one?
Originally posted by Darth Thor
Heres one in the ESB audio commentary from Lucas:Notice how he says Power AND Potential. So hes not just referring to potential. And this is as of Empire Strikes Back. Lucas still feels hes lost power that hasnt been regained by this point even.
He lost the power and potential to become more powerful than peak Sidious, something he had, nothing indicates he's less powerful than pre suit Vader or Sidious, only that he lost his potential to becme more powerful than peak Sidious.
Originally posted by Jaggarath
Which is obviously highly subjective to bias, not to mention you're effectively arguing Vader's powers remained relatively consistent across his tenure of Dark Lord then suddenly skyrocketed the final six-to-eight months from "a lot" less powerful than Anakin to more powerful.
How is the quote subjective to bias? Vader's powerrs were ever growing as per numerous sources so no, it wasn't consistent. Not to mention the fact that you seem to be forgetting that Vader was "engorged with his power" which implies a huger amount of growth.
Because it’s from Vader’s POV, who hates Anakin and views him as weak?
You misinterpret what I mean by consistent. If after 23 years Vader is still “a lot” less powerful than Anakin, the jump in power he would have to do there is vastly greater than any previous jump in power he’s displayed.
And “engorged” means Vader is basking in that power, not that it’s a huge gap, lmao. Is that also in reference to his power resonating with the Emperor’s?
Moreover, Lucas attributes Vader’s inferiority to Anakin because of his injuries and cybernetics, not because he just hasn’t regained that power. It’s not like ROTJ Vader would be in a similar situation unless he healed himself and freed himself of the suit, which he has repeatedly tried and failed. I see no reason why this quote is bound by ESB and not suited Vader overall, not to mention it’s clearly Lucas’ intent there.
Originally posted by Jaggarath
Because it’s from Vader’s POV, who hates Anakin and views him as weak?You misinterpret what I mean by consistent. If after 23 years Vader is still “a lot” less powerful than Anakin, the jump in power he would have to do there is vastly greater than any previous jump in power he’s displayed.
And “engorged” means Vader is basking in that power, not that it’s a huge gap, lmao. Is that also in reference to his power resonating with the Emperor’s?
1.Vader also hated himself lol and during ROTJ he was closer to Anakin than ever.
2.This is a fair point but characters have recieved massive amplifications in the past so it's not impossible.
3.Engorged is referring to Vader's power being at huge levels which suggests a significant amount of growth.
Originally posted by DarthCaedus77
1.Vader also hated himself lol and during ROTJ he was closer to Anakin than ever.2.This is a fair point but characters have recieved massive amplifications in the past so it's not impossible.
3.Engorged is referring to Vader's power being at huge levels which suggests a significant amount of growth.
2. And they’re all generally explained in detail.
3. Dude, google the definition of “engorged,” lmao.
Originally posted by Jaggarath
1. Except Vader still falsely revered his current position and the dark side until his redemption. Vader’s own self-hatred is more of an deeper belief rather than a constant conscious belief.2. And they’re all generally explained in detail.
3. Dude, google the definition of “engorged,” lmao.
1.Vader's inner self conflict wasn't something that just happened it was gradual over the course of ROTJ.
2.Vader's growth was literally explained in the quote we're discussing LMFAO.
3.I have officially reached LeGend level in my ability to phrase things LMFAO, cuase that did not come out the way it intended.
Originally posted by DarthCaedus77
1.Vader's inner self conflict wasn't something that just happened it was gradual over the course of ROTJ.2.Vader's growth was literally explained in the quote we're discussing LMFAO.
3.I have officially reached LeGend level in my ability to phrase things LMFAO, cuase that did not come out the way it intended.
1.) Sure, but it's not until Luke's defiance against the Emperor does Vader realize that the dark side isn't infinitely more powerful than the light like Palpatine convinces his apprentices. Vader actively believes in both a.) the dark side's supremacy b.) that Anakin Skywalker was weak because of his emotional turmoil - after all, he lost to Obi-Wan. Both of these factors create a bias against Anakin.
That's not to mention the ROTJ novel implies that Vader actually suppressed a lot of his memories as Anakin, that Vader might not be considering Anakin as the same person as him (since he regards them as distinctively separate), and that it's rather ridiculous to assert that ROTJ Luke in one year progressed beyond his more prodigious father or Yoda.
2.) Just checked. Vader only feels engorged when his powers resonate with the Emperor's, thereby amping him, lmao.