Comic Book Questions & Discussion

Originally posted by NemeBro
If he destroyed the multiverse he created then yeah, he did.

And considering the punch also left a continent-sized crater on the planet they were on, he likely killed countless millions (billions?) on that world alone.

And he seems to have completely disintegrated the future Justice League, since I assume that is what is happening here in the bottom panels:

https://imgur.com/a/mPUke0l

But I think this is also one of those moments where we can always says, "they weren't real"

Originally posted by xJLxKing
You're right

But I think this is also one of those moments where we can always says, "they weren't real"

The same is true of the prior DC multiverse and all of the mainline characters. They weren't an idea that had yet to come into existence, they already existed. Until Superman killed them all.

Originally posted by xJLxKing
You're right

But I think this is also one of those moments where we can always says, "they weren't real"

Originally posted by CatL18
I agree.
They are like Dark Knights in Dark multiverse.
They don't have essence that people of prime universe and other pararell universe have.
So, it depends on interpretation about whether Superman killed people or not.

Lol it’s funny that other forums are having meltdowns re powerset, etc., but KMC is def having their own existential crisis over it. Who’s to say which fictional lives matter more?

Originally posted by carver9
Exactly and the showing he just posted, Supes was heavingly amped.

Delicious tears

Originally posted by CatL18
I agree.
They are like Dark Knights in Dark multiverse.
They don't have essence that people of prime universe and other pararell universe have.
So, it depends on interpretation about whether Superman killed people or not.

It doesn't depend on interpretation, you're just making excuses imho.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Why? Because the World Forger created the world that they were born from?

The same is true of the prior DC multiverse and all of the mainline characters. They weren't an idea that had yet to come into existence, they already existed. Until Superman killed them all.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Based on what? They are not made of the darkstuff that the Dark Knights were, they are just people from a different multiverse that has the exact same genesis as the prime one.

It doesn't depend on interpretation, you're just making excuses imho.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Based on what? They are not made of the darkstuff that the Dark Knights were, they are just people from a different multiverse that has the exact same genesis as the prime one.

It doesn't depend on interpretation, you're just making excuses imho.

Besides, Even Shayne has no problems to accept it( He following Justice League as if they didn't kill his parents)

Originally posted by Quick Freeze
And speak on an earlier point, there is no reason for anyone to be sour. We’re not barred from debating the character because he’s too powerful, per se, but because he’s too wildly inconsistent and we don’t know how powerful he is atm... right?

It's because he is regarded as being all-powerful:

Galan007
|Observer|

Registered: Jul 2006
Posts: 76317 Regarding Superman threads in the Versus Forum... (Yesterday until Jul 6th, 2020)
All,
Simply put, over the past 10-15 years especially, Superman has preformed asininely high-end feats so routinely that it has basically become his norm these days, and can no longer be viewed as 'outliers' or w/e. It is well established that, when push comes to shove, there is really nothing Superman can't do... No one he can't beat(especially in the all-out/full capacity setting of the versus forum.)That IS part of his powerset -- probably the most important/fundamental aspect of his powerset, in all honesty.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
It's because he is regarded as being all-powerful:

Okay we're establishing that based on feats since circa '05, he basically now has the power to "not be beat," should he decide to use this power.

(the quotes are for you Stilt)

Originally posted by Quick Freeze
Okay we're establishing that based on feats since circa '05, he basically now has the power to "not be beat," should he decide to use this power.

(the quotes are for you Stilt)

The 'deciding' part is kinda moot - because we assume that when a forum fight starts, BOTH sides are there willing to fight (and thus, are looking to win). It means that they will use all their power to try and win.

Now, Carver and some others had issue with this rule. For them, 'not going all out' was part of the character's.....character, whereas for others of us, 'not going all out' was PIS, if it led to their loss.

If a character loses in a comic, and they didn't go all out - that was kinda moot for a forum thread, for us.

Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
I mean, This case just like all alternative timeline story: Though maybe those people look like real but they are not real, So Superman doesn't kill anyone in this fight technically

Besides, Even Shayne has no problems to accept it( He following Justice League as if they didn't kill his parents)

Because there's no counterpart of Shayne

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
The 'deciding' part is kinda moot - because we assume that when a forum fight starts, BOTH sides are there willing to fight (and thus, are looking to win). It means that they will use all their power to try and win.

Now, Carver and some others had issue with this rule. For them, 'not going all out' was part of the character's.....character, whereas for others of us, 'not going all out' was PIS, if it led to their loss.

If a character loses in a comic, and they didn't go all out - that was kinda moot for a forum thread, for us.

Ok well now I'm confused again. You're bringing back the "full capacity vs in-character" debate, in which I thought there was at least some consensus that "outliers," as Galan put it, (like say, Namor using blowfish or eel powers), are so unlikely to occur with any regularity in comics, even when there's a lot on the line in a plot, that it's safe to argue against its presence in a forum fight unless specified by OP, but now that Supes has become so consistently uber in sheer power, it's pointless to use him in a forum fight.

Anyone think Pre-Crisis characters or Superman might be making an appearance in Year of the villain?

Nrama: At the end of the book, they bring the World Forger into the Hall of Justice and appear to be teaming up with him. Is he part of the book going forward, and we’ll see the Monitor and Anti-Monitor get involved in this fight?

Snyder: We will. It’s going to be huge. Wait until you see.

This is the stuff that starts the biggest stuff.

"Justice: Doom War," which starts with issue #30, is everything you’ve been waiting for. It’s a war between the Legion of Doom, which expands, and the Justice League, which expands to include most of the heroes across time.

Nrama: So not just from across the Multiverse, but across time?

Snyder: Like, across… literally, the kind of Hypertime boundaries of the DCU.

It’s the biggest thing we’ve ever tried within a regular book. And I’m deeply proud of it. It’s that we’ve been building toward since the beginning.

So yes, it’s really going to involve these characters.

The World Forger knows that the only way to win this thing now is to get his brothers, the Anti-Monitor and the Monitor, to band together and try to trap Perpetua the way they did eons ago.

So as character-grounded as it is, it becomes … I wouldn’t call it anything but an event book going forward.

I mean, it has really quiet moments. The next three issues are a little bit quieter, but then it gets crazy.

Also, Lex Luthor is not even in the final stage. He's still evolving.

Nrama: Small tasks. So what is Lex now — some sort of in-between creature?

Snyder: He’s in between. He’s essentially like an acolyte. He’s supposed to be in, almost like the tadpole stage. Do you know what I mean?
So this is the stage in which Perpetua says, "I bless you with the beginnings of what I wanted to make you in the first place. But now you’ll have to get the rest of what you need yourself to prove to me you’re worthy."

https://www.newsarama.com/45488-scott-snyder-calls-justice-league-an-event-book-going-forward.html

Originally posted by Quick Freeze
Holy crap. Thanks for those clear explanations. I got mixed feelings about that. Any Superman, no matter how powerful, pre-C/post-C “merged” or whatever, that is functionally immune to his timelessly established weaknesses is no longer the same character, and pointless in a debate so I def get it now.

Having Vertigo, Milestone, and Wildstorm characters with retconned histories with the JLA, however, I actually can def get on board with, despite my initial aversion to reboots.

I also do understand why DC is doing this. Now that they have a more exciting well to draw from, it’s an appropriate time to amp up their banner characters, but it def shouldn’t be permanent

There's a rumour going aruiond that DC is closing Vertigo, so any characters they want to keep that haven't been folded in already, soon will be I imagine. Assuming it's all true.

Originally posted by Quick Freeze
Ok well now I'm confused again. You're bringing back the "full capacity vs in-character" debate, in which I thought there was at least some consensus that "outliers," as Galan put it, (like say, Namor using blowfish or eel powers), are so unlikely to occur with any regularity in comics, even when there's a lot on the line in a plot, that it's safe to argue against its presence in a forum fight unless specified by OP, but now that Supes has become so consistently uber in sheer power, it's pointless to use him in a forum fight.

That's not an in character vs full capacity debate.

Let's put it this way.

WW (full gear) vs Thor.

Let's say I am arguing for WW.

Full capacity, but still in character
WW rushes over, and uses her lasso. WW wins.

Full capacity, but only arguing powerset and ignoring character
WW rushes over, uses her tiara to blind Thor, then uses her sword to carve his heart out. WW wins.

You get my point. I can do it with Superman too.

Match starts, Superman flies over, and punches [insert opponent here]. That's in character, and full capacity means he uses his full strength and speed.

Match starts, Superman flies over, and tears their head off, cauterizing the gaping neck wound with his heat vision. That's full capacity, and ignoring character and just focusing on power set. Or, Superman starts and sings his opponent out of existence. Etc etc.

You see the difference? Nobody (sane) here argues on pure powerset.

Originally posted by Senor Cage
Anyone think Pre-Crisis characters or Superman might be making an appearance in Year of the villain?

Also, Lex Luthor is not even in the final stage. He's still evolving.

https://www.newsarama.com/45488-scott-snyder-calls-justice-league-an-event-book-going-forward.html

I really hope Snyder's writing improves during the rest of his run.

Ok I see. I get what you're saying. "Deciding is moot." A better way for me to have said it is the way Galan put it "can't be beat."