Originally posted by One Big Mob
Are you legit retarded? No matter how you interpret the latest Superman feat, he still punched out an Anti-Monitor level being. Surfer getting good feats doesn't compare to the writing Superman is getting on a surface level.Stoking the fires of delusion.
That being said, here's how I see the Surfer feat:
He chucked Stormbreaker out of a black hole
He ripped out of a black hole seemingly physically to save others
And this exertion and distraction weakened him to a point he couldn't escape himself
The black hole was also pretending to act like a black hole for once, which is always a pleasure to see (time shatters, reality is effed in the Carvehole). While Surfer was effected by it, he still withstood it while saving everyone.
He then either lands at the conclusion of the black hole, or in a place he arrived in after messing with the fabric of the black hole. The planet is not in the black hole.
This place if combining with Venom #4 might be a different dimension - Knull calls it his dimension. All the area is shrouded in darkness with Knull blinking out stars with darkness.
He creates a mini star while weakened that clears the shroud off the planet.
It is my opinion that he lights the entire planet and his star is this planet's "long forgotten sun" due to everything in the galaxy being dark, not just the planet. Doesn't ultimately matter though. Lighting up a planet is whatever.
And beats Knull's sentries which are symbiotes covering Gods.It seems the doorway is in an alternate place from said alternate place. Which is in 616. It's the same place as when Gorr first found the Necrosword iirc. If it's the same, and combining it with a preview wording, it's a whole galaxy that Knull was shrouding in the abyss.
Anyway, good feats. Completely blows away say the way Thor is being written, but you'd have to be retarded to think this in any way compares to the way Superman has been written lately.
While I do like the way he's writing Surfer, and obviously like the feats so far, I am worried about his Knull fixation. I don't want the first possibly good Surfer stories to become focused on Venom shit. Mind you if he could center this to be more Knull than Symbiotes I wouldn't mind. I'd rather expand the actual character than the consequences of his actions. Even Gayson Aaron seems to be going back to Necrosword shit for his shit story, and is now retroactively Symbiote shit. Venom shit everywhere.
If we're getting Knull, focus on the actual character.
Huge huge fan of getting the script though. I'd love to see some Morrison scripts, or even some Jason Aaron scripts [Thor gets knocked out and I go against things I wrote previously].
Surfer did this under his base power.
While Superman was considerably amped by all those 6d suns.
Originally posted by cdtm
Mxy also infused him with 5d imp.power.
Originally posted by cdtm
Surfer did this under his base power.While Superman was considerably amped by all those 6d suns.
Originally posted by One Big Mob
It doesn't matter if he's amped. The writer has an incredible opinion of him that allows him to go from planetary level at his lowest to wherever the **** he wants just like that. And he's not the only writer that thinks that.You can't possibly compare the two feats and figure out a "limit" to base Superman so it can be whatever he needs it to.
Superman can do whatever he wants to do. Surfer mimicking that ability in one issue does not reflect back on Superman. Poor Superman that he will never replicate that exact feat... he can only do everything else because he is literally a plot device due to his nature. Give him a couple weeks and he'll do something retarded again. Give Surfer only Donny Cates and he'll rack up 1/12 of it. Impressive yes, but that relies on writers who aren't beholden to Marvel Earth standards. Superman appears every week multiple times and even writers like Bendis love him.
It's simply not the same, nor will anything Surfer ever does put him beyond Superman. Superman will always get amazing feats. Surfer is not respected, and when he is, it's still below the respect Superman gets.
Let's just be glad he's not getting treated like Thor - who is a prime example of how important respect is.
You guys are too obsessed with the exact 1 to 1 nature of the feats and how you can apply them to the forum. If only looking at these two issues at base levels, yes, Surfer's feat is better, but Superman's is impossible to quantify how it relates back to him. It's not a limitation of his base level so it has no impact on his base limits besides us assuming he can't do it. So you get anywhere from planetary to World Forger without anyone having the facts of how far he was amped.
The importance of the feat is how the writers view each character however. Yes, "all" the writers view Surfer as being able to manipulate black holes. The writers on the other side of the fence however view Superman as the ultimate thwart to evil no matter what dimensional level they reside on. So it's very important to note these things when jumping the gun based on recent occurrences. And I'm not setting aside everything Superman has done either; I'm merely using his feat as a culmination and summation of what he's done. So for you to take one feat from Surfer and use it to prop him above Superman is a foolhardy act to me considering what that WF feat represents. I'm not using it purely as a forum feat-war type of deal, I'm using it to show the respect this character garners from writers; both great and shit.
If we're setting that specific feat aside and taking this literally; do we really think this feat eclipses Superman's entire history too? Do you personally - Crazy Dan The Man - think this one feat is above Superman's prior bests? Are you going to go thread to thread parading around Surfer's feat proclaiming him far above Superman? Because if not, then I hope you can see my issue with a claim of this sort.
Surfer cannot win in a feat war with Superman. While I think a fight between the two should have both parties take a step back from the literal application of feats[*], I do think it impossible to go by feats and declare him better. The way people do this is even more insane with the way they prop a few feats up without taking into account the opposition's best.
[*]This feat is 50 tons better, this feat is 287.69420 better, this feat is doublex as durable, etc.
People will set aside the context of feats, and the context of WHY it happened in favor of a number they decree to better. This is something I'm not in favor of, and why you rarely see me argue who wins, and instead go for the factors/arguments people bring forth. I don't usually care who wins threads, but I do care about specifics being portrayed in a way that I consider wrong. EG, Juggernaut is completely invulnerable. Hulk could very well win every thread he's ever been in, but Carver still only shoots with an 8 percent accuracy in said threads.
"Dragon Ball"
Don't even try it.
Originally posted by cdtmThat was just so he could withstand getting 'ported into the 6th dimension without going insane:
Mxy also infused him with 5d imp.power.
There is absolutely no indication that the 5D energy 'amped' Superman to any extent while he was in the 6th dimension, though.... Quite the opposite, actually:
I was very disappointed with Superman 12. kara was supposed to tell us about Rogal Zaar's back ground. All she did was confirm that he was responsible for Krypton's destruction.
Im also very pissed at what they are doing to Jor-El. From a benevolent scientist and father who wanted to save Krypton and ended up saving his son to a guy who ran a shady organization possibly responsible for Krypton's destruction kinda taints superman's image. What's next Pa Kent is going to be revealed as a pedo? Why don't they just leave these dead guys alone?
Originally posted by DiesldudeAgree with you, Jor-el's portraying in Rebirth is one of the biggest disappointments IMO
I was very disappointed with Superman 12. kara was supposed to tell us about Rogal Zaar's back ground. All she did was confirm that he was responsible for Krypton's destruction.Im also very pissed at what they are doing to Jor-El. From a benevolent scientist and father who wanted to save Krypton and ended up saving his son to a guy who ran a shady organization possibly responsible for Krypton's destruction kinda taints superman's image. What's next Pa Kent is going to be revealed as a pedo? Why don't they just leave these dead guys alone?
Originally posted by One Big Mob
You guys are too obsessed with the exact 1 to 1 nature of the feats and how you can apply them to the forum. If only looking at these two issues at base levels, yes, Surfer's feat is better, but Superman's is impossible to quantify how it relates back to him. It's not a limitation of his base level so it has no impact on his base limits besides us assuming he can't do it. So you get anywhere from planetary to World Forger without anyone having the facts of how far he was amped.The importance of the feat is how the writers view each character however. Yes, "all" the writers view Surfer as being able to manipulate black holes. The writers on the other side of the fence however view Superman as the ultimate thwart to evil no matter what dimensional level they reside on. So it's very important to note these things when jumping the gun based on recent occurrences. And I'm not setting aside everything Superman has done either; I'm merely using his feat as a culmination and summation of what he's done. So for you to take one feat from Surfer and use it to prop him above Superman is a foolhardy act to me considering what that WF feat represents. I'm not using it purely as a forum feat-war type of deal, I'm using it to show the respect this character garners from writers; both great and shit.
If we're setting that specific feat aside and taking this literally; do we really think this feat eclipses Superman's entire history too? Do you personally - Crazy Dan The Man - think this one feat is above Superman's prior bests? Are you going to go thread to thread parading around Surfer's feat proclaiming him far above Superman? Because if not, then I hope you can see my issue with a claim of this sort.
Surfer cannot win in a feat war with Superman. While I think a fight between the two should have both parties take a step back from the literal application of feats[*], I do think it impossible to go by feats and declare him better. The way people do this is even more insane with the way they prop a few feats up without taking into account the opposition's best.
[*]This feat is 50 tons better, this feat is 287.69420 better, this feat is doublex as durable, etc.
People will set aside the context of feats, and the context of WHY it happened in favor of a number they decree to better. This is something I'm not in favor of, and why you rarely see me argue who wins, and instead go for the factors/arguments people bring forth. I don't usually care who wins threads, but I do care about specifics being portrayed in a way that I consider wrong. EG, Juggernaut is completely invulnerable. Hulk could very well win every thread he's ever been in, but Carver still only shoots with an 8 percent accuracy in said threads."Dragon Ball"
Don't even try it.
I mean Surfer also tanked reality warpin/time shattering in the same issue
