Comic Book Questions & Discussion

Originally posted by ODG
^ Pop icon in America, sure. Like, everybody in America knows Superman. But throughout Europe, is Tintin arguably more recognizable?

I don't know crap about Tintin but... just perusing his wiki, I'm like.. whoa...

I have no clue what Superman's recognizability is like outside the US. I guess I just feel like, generally speaking, Superman has to still be extremely known to some extent -- right up there with Coke, McDonald's, Disneyland, etc. But I've got no idea.

^ I think we both agree that in North America, Superman is far more recognizable/relvant than Goku or Tintin.

But... unless someone has a worldwide survey, we have no idea if that holds true outside of North America.

8 beers in... but ima take a crack at DC cosmic hierarchy just to really piss people off, lol. Seriously, though. Feel free to tear it apart and I will try not to be dismissively nasty about criticisms:

1) Great Darkness, a.k.a. Great Evil Beast, Night, Pralaya
2) The Presence, a.k.a. the Source, the Hand, the Voice, the Overvoid
3) The Endless, a.k.a. Death + Destiny + Dream + Destruction + Desire + Despair + Delirium
4) The Life Equation/Miracle Machine
5) Anti-Life Equation
6) The Empty Hand
7) The Cosmic Raptor
8) The Hands/Perpetua/Ultra-Monitor
9) Anti-Crisis Wonder Woman
10) Darkest Knight
11) Dr. Manhattan/Batman Who Laughs (final form)
12) Mxy/Batmite
13) Anti-Monitor, a.k.a. Mobius/World Forger a.k.a. Alpheus/Monitor a.k.a Mar Novu
14) Barbatos
15) Cosmic Armor Superman
16) Mandrakk
17) The Entity, a.k.a. White Light of Creation/Nekron/Umbrax
18) conglomerated Power of the Guardians, a.k.a. Ion
19) Worlogog
20) Parallax, Predator, Ophidion, Butcher, Adara, Proselyte
21) Spectre/The Radiant
22) Godwave
23) Speedforce
24) conglomerated Darkseid
25) Quintessence

P.S. And yes, I know there is a conspicuous absence of Vertigo Lucifer-related characters. But if you guys can make sense of how Holly Black's run and Dan Watter's run fit Lucifer and his angelic progeny into DC cosmic hierarchy, by all means. I tried for 30 minutes and I gave up.

^ I see now that I repeated myself with #s 10-11. So combine those and add Omegaforce/Astroforce as a new #25.

Now is your ranking based on Worlds Funnest? Because one can argue that two ways;

1. It is in no way canon to DC, even as an "Elseworld".
2. Spectte wasn't fully empowered by The Presence, because Presence knew Mxy and Bat Mite were just messing around.

If you compare with DCeased, Spectre actually kills Mxy.

Yes, alternate universe Spectre, but is not The Presence and Source the same in any universe? There can be only one, as Highlander says.

Jim Corrigan may be a different version, but the power he taps into should be the same. (Of course the same logic applies to Mxy, who is heavily implied to be the same character across all incarnations and media. How he "dies" in any of them is anyone's guess).

^ Used to be popular conception that the Living Tribunal was the same multiversal being across every universe. But Time Runs Out showed that every single universe has it's own sliver of a Living Tribunal.

Anyway, Spectre apologists always made excuses about whether the Spectre was fully backed by the Presence. But that'd be the same as if Living Tribunal apologists made excuses that he didn't have the full backing of the TOAA.

It's a non-sequitur. Take the character as he is, on-panel.

What did World Forger do for him to be so high up? Name his fts ODG outside of being in the former.

Originally posted by ODG
^ Used to be popular conception that the Living Tribunal was the same multiversal being across every universe. But Time Runs Out showed that every single universe has it's own sliver of a Living Tribunal.

Anyway, Spectre apologists always made excuses about whether the Spectre was fully backed by the Presence. But that'd be the same as if Living Tribunal apologists made excuses that he didn't have the full backing of the TOAA.

It's a non-sequitur. Take the character as he is, on-panel.

I guess that means World's Funnest is its own thing then.

Why place Mxy so high then? Emperor Joker?

The JSA did prove that hosts make a tremendous difference, as Hal got shredded by the King of Tears while Jim Corrigan ate it up and cried it out into a container. Fact is we don't really know what would happen between that Spectre and Mxy, as they haven't fought.

Originally posted by cdtm
I guess that means World's Funnest is its own thing then.

Why place Mxy so high then? Emperor Joker?

The JSA did prove that hosts make a tremendous difference, as Hal got shredded by the King of Tears while Jim Corrigan ate it up and cried it out into a container. Fact is we don't really know what would happen between that Spectre and Mxy, as they haven't fought.

I dunno, tell us why he should be placed lower??? Like I said, I'll try not to be nasty about it.

Am I misremembering that Mxy's power made a fool of Spectre in storyline(s)?

Originally posted by carver9
What did World Forger do for him to be so high up? Name his fts ODG outside of being in the former.

Originally posted by ODG
He forged universes.

When? Scans of that, please.

Originally posted by carver9
When? Scans of that, please.

^ Bleh, tried resizing it so I wouldn't stretch the page but you can't see sh1t. Here's the relevant piece:

Originally posted by ODG
^ Bleh, tried resizing it so I wouldn't stretch the page but you can't see sh1t. Here's the relevant piece:

https://imgur.io/a/RfxZf
https://imgur.io/a/tlZIp

I personally don't think Celestials are universal...statements.

Originally posted by carver9
https://imgur.io/a/RfxZf
https://imgur.io/a/tlZIp

I personally don't think Celestials are universal...statements.

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/oo326/OneDumbG0/Second_Cosmos01.jpg

Originally posted by ODG
8 beers in... but ima take a crack at DC cosmic hierarchy just to really piss people off, lol. Seriously, though. Feel free to tear it apart and I will try not to be dismissively nasty about criticisms:

1) Great Darkness, a.k.a. Great Evil Beast, Night, Pralaya
2) The Presence, a.k.a. the Source, the Hand, the Voice, the Overvoid
3) The Endless, a.k.a. Death + Destiny + Dream + Destruction + Desire + Despair + Delirium
4) The Life Equation/Miracle Machine
5) Anti-Life Equation
6) The Empty Hand
7) The Cosmic Raptor
8) The Hands/Perpetua/Ultra-Monitor
9) Anti-Crisis Wonder Woman
10) Darkest Knight
11) Dr. Manhattan/Batman Who Laughs (final form)
12) Mxy/Batmite
13) Anti-Monitor, a.k.a. Mobius/World Forger a.k.a. Alpheus/Monitor a.k.a Mar Novu
14) Barbatos
15) Cosmic Armor Superman
16) Mandrakk
17) The Entity, a.k.a. White Light of Creation/Nekron/Umbrax
18) conglomerated Power of the Guardians, a.k.a. Ion
19) Worlogog
20) Parallax, Predator, Ophidion, Butcher, Adara, Proselyte
21) Spectre/The Radiant
22) Godwave
23) Speedforce
24) conglomerated Darkseid
25) Quintessence

P.S. And yes, I know there is a conspicuous absence of Vertigo Lucifer-related characters. But if you guys can make sense of how Holly Black's run and Dan Watter's run fit Lucifer and his angelic progeny into DC cosmic hierarchy, by all means. I tried for 30 minutes and I gave up.

Darkseid is a full 18 steps below The Empty Hand when he fought Empty Hand to a stalemate while Empty Hand was amped.

Originally posted by ODG
8 beers in... [/i]

Originally posted by ODG
Because I'm drunk?

Originally posted by ODG
So, do you similarly cast doubt on how the Celestials created the Second Cosmos:

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/oo326/OneDumbG0/Second_Cosmos01.jpg

Celestials are not Universal. As a group they are but individually, nuuh. Those scans are not the only reference to them being universal, and one of those Celestials is the bottom barrel of the bunch.

Originally posted by carver9
Celestials are not Universal. As a group they are but individually, nuuh. Those scans are not the only reference to them being universal, and one of those Celestials is the bottom barrel of the bunch.

Its his ****ing job to create universes carver, how do you think he does that?

odg dc list is laughable garbage

the hands is not the source, they are super celestials beings beyond the source wall, they are judges of the source which was mentioned in justice league issue 22

great darkness is not above the presence/the source, presence literally stalemated geb in alan moore's swamp thing