Comic Book Questions & Discussion

Originally posted by carver9
Why would I be crying? For YEARS i've been saying Superman didn't amp up his strength in DOS, that he was getting weaker. YOU ALL painted this picture that his supposedly dynamic strength made him stronger while getting beat to death by Doomsday and even admitting in DOS that his legs were feeling like jelly.

Also, Doomsday is amped fighting Martian Manhunter and Supergirl due to souls feeding him. Why would I be mad at this since it's not a display of Doomsday true power.

Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
I don't see the contradication here?

Doomsday was destroyed during Dark Crisis, and later tried to reconstruct itself via Metropolis's own memory, however, its attempt was stopped by Raphael Arce and MMH
https://ibb.co/F0GJswq

My specific nitpick was that the first editor's note confirms that after Doomsday's "destruction" during Dark Crisis, Doomsday ended up in Hell.

But later on, that's not how Doomsday ended up in Hell. No, the second editor's note confirms that it was after Lazarus Planet, that Doomsday was brought into Hell by Raphael Arce. Again... which is after Dark Crisis.

So unless Doomsday went to Hell twiceover, the same editor confirming both is nonsensical: (i) Doomsday shows up in Dark Crisis, (ii) Doomsday gets "destroyed" during the climax*, (iii) Doomsday ends up in Hell, (iv) Raphael Arce attunes with Metropolis' memories and manifests Doomsday's form out of his location in Hell???, (v) Raphael Arce banishes Doomsday back to Hell.

wat?

Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
I.E
1)It was destroyed during Dark Crisis(its body was destroyed)
2)Later it tried to regrow itself via memory but before Doomsday could successfully resurrect it was stopped by Raphael Arce and MMH(They sent it to hell, and since it never successfully resurrected so of course it couldn't be said it was destroyed)
3)Doomsday once again tried to resurrect himself via MMH's psychic link, but again, it was stopped before it could successfully resurrect itself

I can accept that there was a retcon where Doomsday is destroyed during Dark Crisis. I can also accept that the blood gem somehow was a portal to Hell. Screwed up that an innocent like Raphael Arce was sent there, but ok.

Finally, I can accept that Raphael Arce can literally morph into someone whose psychic imprint he's touched. And despite J'onn lacking adaptive regrowth abilities, Raphael is literally Bloodwynd now. Which substantially reduces Doomsday's adaptive regrowth abilities from being more important than Raphael Arce's powers in the two-part equation that was Doomsday's cameo during Lazarus Planet. Can you accept that?

Originally posted by ODG
We already disagree on whether Doomsday or Raphael Arce had more agency during Lazarus Planet. And the conclusion of Action Comics Presents: Doomsday Special appears to support my position. More on that later.

My specific nitpick was that the first editor's note confirms that after Doomsday's "destruction" during Dark Crisis, Doomsday ended up in Hell.

But later on, that's not how Doomsday ended up in Hell. No, the second editor's note confirms that it was after Lazarus Planet, that Doomsday was brought into Hell by Raphael Arce. Again... which is after Dark Crisis.

So unless Doomsday went to Hell twiceover, the same editor confirming both is nonsensical: [b](i) Doomsday shows up in Dark Crisis, (ii) Doomsday gets "destroyed" during the climax*, (iii) Doomsday ends up in Hell, (iv) Raphael Arce attunes with Metropolis' memories and manifests Doomsday's form out of his location in Hell???, (v) Raphael Arce banishes Doomsday back to Hell.

wat? *1) Doomsday, like the rest of the Dark Army, just faded away back to where they came from after Dr. Light and the Flashes restored the multiverse. You literally see Doomsday fade, not die. But whatever.
2) Raphael Arce taps into the psychic imprint of Doomsday and starts manifesting Doomsday's form from his own body.
3) Raphael and Doomsday's "form" were eventually imprisoned within the crushed down blood gem left behind.
3) That somehow turns out to have unleashed Doomsday into Hell.
4) That also somehow sends Raphael Arce to Hell.
5) Raphael Arce taps into the psychic imprint of J'onn and starts manifesting his old Bloodwynd persona from his own body.

I can accept that there was a retcon where Doomsday is destroyed during Dark Crisis. I can also accept that the blood gem somehow was a portal to Hell. Screwed up that an innocent like Raphael Arce was sent there, but ok.

Finally, I can accept that Raphael Arce can literally morph into someone whose psychic imprint he's touched. And despite J'onn lacking adaptive regrowth abilities, Raphael is literally Bloodwynd now. Which substantially reduces Doomsday's adaptive regrowth abilities from being more important than Raphael Arce's powers in the two-part equation that was Doomsday's cameo during Lazarus Planet. Can you accept that? [/B]

"Doomsday went to Hell twiceover"...it is exactly my point.
It never states Doomsday only went to Hell only once.

Originally posted by Parmaniac

Source?

Vizard #1?

Parma Comics Presents #69? 😛

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Source?

Vizard #1?

Parma Comics Presents #69? 😛

Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
What If...? Dark: Venom

Ah. Thanks. It was too good to be true.

Kinda disappointed Ben didn't die in the end. Fuck F4.

Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
I don't think so. I would say it actually contradicts to your interpretations
As we saw Doomsday could have resurrected itself from just psychic link this time, again, showing Doomsday's regen extends to "can resurret itself from metaphysical ceoncept". Which also contradicts to your "Raphael Arce powers play important part in Doomsday's resurrection" arguemnt I think.
Plus, the comic again directly mentioned Doomsday can resurrect/could have resurrected from memory this point.

But Doomsday was manifesting from J'onn's body during Lazarus Planet when J'onn tried to contain him, after all. Fact. So Doomsday arguably established a precedent to do so with J'onn? So what could possibly be the reason behind Doomsday's failure to achieve it now as opposed to back then?

Because J'onn tried to contain the form of Doomsday that Raphael Arce's power already had manifested. Raphael Arce's power is the missing link both times. And Doomsday not manifesting from J'onn is now doubly damning to your assertion.

It's more Raphael Arce's feat than Doomsday's. By a good margin. Raphael Arce is a literal plot device.

Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
"Doomsday went to Hell twiceover"...it is exactly my point.
It never states Doomsday only went to Hell only once.

Like... in my version of events, I am legitimately impressed that Raphael Arce's powers were perverted by Doomsdays adaptive regrowth nature because Doomsday didn't actually exist anywhere. He was only a memory. But you're saying Doomsday was actually in Hell where he could be picked up from. Knocks it down a peg for me. But I'll stick with my interpretation.

did this comic imply that hell only exists on earth? 😕

^ Not really. But pretty much all mainstream comics imply that Heaven and Hell is the province of Earth beings only.

Exponentially more Kree, Shiar and Skrulls than there ever were humans. Any Marvel conception of Heaven though is pretty much Earthlings. DC is more notorious given that Jesus is explicitly the son of Yahweh, a.k.a., the Presence. Funny how Jesus only lived on DC Earth for thirty-odd years and ignored the rest of the universe. Guess, free grace and beneificence is the province of humankind only. Screw dem filthy xenos. No Heaven for you.

Originally posted by ODG
This ignores that we have two characters to serve as controls to utterly disprove your theory. J'onn had a psychic tether to Doomsday and he shared it with Kara to decipher the Kryptonian nature of the tether. Fact. Yet, Doomsday did not resurrect from within J'onn or Kara. Fact(s).

But Doomsday was manifesting from J'onn's body during Lazarus Planet when J'onn tried to contain him, after all. Fact. So Doomsday arguably established a precedent to do so with J'onn? So what could possibly be the reason behind Doomsday's failure to achieve it now as opposed to back then?

Because J'onn tried to contain the form of Doomsday that Raphael Arce's power already had manifested. Raphael Arce's power is the missing link both times. And Doomsday not manifesting from J'onn is now doubly damning to your assertion.

It's more Raphael Arce's feat than Doomsday's. By a good margin. Raphael Arce is a literal plot device.

For example:
You said Raphael Arce can literally morph into someone whose psychic imprint he's touched, so substantially reduces Doomsday's adaptive regrowth abilities.
But Raphael Arce specifically states he has been changed by both Doomsday and MMH when he morphs into Bloodwynd. I.E, now his powers aren't just the product of Lazarus Pit, but also a product of Doomsday and MMH
So you used this as your proof is iffy. What Spider-Man can do after he has been changed by the spider doesn't necessarily mean Peter can do before this change

On the other hand, in my position, I have:
1) Doomsday is specifically stated to have the abilities regrowing from memory
2) Later comic again also specifically states it's Metropolis's memory Doomsday tried to regrow from with an editor note
3) Doomsday could have resurrected itself from MMH in both instances. In the recent one, it attributes Doomsday's resurrection to the psychic link. And all Doomsday needs to do is do more killing in Hell.Which again shows Doomsday's regen can extend to more metaphysical level
4) Some more tangential one. The comic also states the idea of Doomsday now infecting Hell, down to its DNA and earth. It caused Hell now has some creatures like Doomhunds(supposedly the hell creatures that infected by it). So I think it also can be argued that it shows Doomsday's abilities extends to metaphysical level

Originally posted by ODG
Yes, I know that's your point. Like I said, it's incredibly circumlocutory and nonsensically unnecessary from a narrative sense. But I cannot disprove it. Having said that, your insistence that Doomsday was in Hell beforehand sorta denigrates your lofty assertions of Doomsday's adaptive regrowth abilities.

Like... in my version of events, I am legitimately impressed that Raphael Arce's powers were perverted by Doomsdays adaptive regrowth nature because Doomsday didn't actually exist anywhere. He was only a memory. But you're saying Doomsday was actually in Hell where he could be picked up from. Knocks it down a peg for me. But I'll stick with my interpretation.

Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
Well, that's your theory...which never explicitly states in the comics. If we go by that, I can also argue your point about Raphael Arce also has problem

For example:
You said Raphael Arce can literally morph into someone whose psychic imprint he's touched, so substantially reduces Doomsday's adaptive regrowth abilities.
But Raphael Arce specifically states he has been changed by both Doomsday and MMH when he morphs into Bloodwynd. I.E, now his powers aren't just the product of Lazarus Pit, but also a product of Doomsday and MMH
So you used this as your proof is iffy. What Spider-Man can do after he has been changed by the spider doesn't necessarily mean Peter can do before this change

For the sake of argument, let's attribute Raphael Arce's connection to J'onn and Doomsday as being responsible for his ability to become Bloodwynd. Ok, sure. That still has nothing to do with Doomsday's inability to manifest from J'onn or Kara. Yet, you keep avoiding this. Why?

Are you now seeing the problem with your theory "Doomsday's adaptive regrowth was the main factor and not Raphael Arce's power"? Or you simply refuse to?

Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
Huh? I think there are some misunderstandings here. I didn't say Doomsday was actually in Hell where he could be picked up from.
What I'm saying is Doomsday now in Hell is because his body was destroyed in mortal plane. So Doomsday tried to bring itself to mortal plane existence in both instances/tried to resurrect itself

But in your hastiness to not have your own admissions be used against you, you've just opened your theory to even more absurdity. Ok. You want Doomsday in Hell before Raphael Arce appeared. Raphael Arce manifested him buuuut -- Raphael did not bring him up from Hell (your assertion) -- no... I guess Raphael created a new Doomsday whole cloth from sheer memory. Guess there were two Doomsdays then. One in Hell after his destruction during Dark Crisis... another one manifested by Raphael Arce and trapped in the blood gem and then sent to Hell.

Why aren't there two Doomsdays rampaging in Hell then, hmm?

Spoiler:
Because your line of thinking is f@cking stupid.

Keep trying to pretend Doomsday was the architect of his reappearance in Lazarus Planet. The comics basically portrayed him as an unwitting animal whose intrinsic nature latched onto and perverted Raphael Arce's power.

But if you want to keep jacking off to Doomsday's adaptive regrowth powers, you still haven't explained why Doomsday didn't manifest himself out of J'onn or Kara.

Should I attribute this stupified silence to trepidation over unassailable facts/logic? Or am I accurate in attributing that stupified silence to you being too busy gargling a fictional character's balls in your mouth to manage an actual response?

kinda

Originally posted by ODG
Ok. You want to draw out your deconstruction via sheer obtuseness. I'm game.

For the sake of argument, let's attribute Raphael Arce's connection to J'onn and Doomsday as being responsible for his ability to become Bloodwynd. Ok, sure. That still has nothing to do with Doomsday's inability to manifest from J'onn or Kara. Yet, you keep avoiding this. Why?

Originally posted by ODG

Are you now seeing the problem with your theory "Doomsday's adaptive regrowth was the main factor and not Raphael Arce's power"? Or you simply refuse to? No misunderstandings. You implied Doomsday was already in Hell after Dark Crisis. If that was a result of some ill-advised hastiness to repudiate my deconstruction of your interpretation, that's on you, buddy.

But in your hastiness to not have your own admissions be used against you, you've just opened your theory to even more absurdity. Ok. You want Doomsday in Hell before Raphael Arce appeared. Raphael Arce manifested him buuuut -- Raphael did not bring him up from Hell (your assertion) -- no... I guess Raphael created a new Doomsday whole cloth from sheer memory. Guess there were two Doomsdays then. One in Hell after his destruction during Dark Crisis... another one manifested by Raphael Arce and trapped in the blood gem and then sent to Hell.

Why aren't there two Doomsdays rampaging in Hell then, hmm?

Spoiler:
Because your line of thinking is f@cking stupid.

Keep trying to pretend Doomsday was the architect of his reappearance in Lazarus Planet. The comics basically portrayed him as an unwitting animal whose intrinsic nature latched onto and perverted Raphael Arce's power.

But if you want to keep jacking off to Doomsday's adaptive regrowth powers, you still haven't explained why Doomsday didn't manifest himself out of J'onn or Kara.

Should I attribute this stupified silence to trepidation over unassailable facts/logic? Or am I accurate in attributing that stupified silence to you being too busy gargling a fictional character's balls in your mouth to manage an actual response?

kinda

Well, insults don't create conversation and you apparently cling on to your opinions. So I will walk away and let you get the last word here if you want.

Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
First of all, I must say your attitude is a bit agressive and patronizing
And for the "Doomsday's inability to manifest from J'onn or Kara" part. That's because they stopped him from resurrecting itself when they were pulled into Hell, which I thought this shouldn't be explained to you since it is the whole point of the comic. 😕

So....I take this as you have no proof that the comics explicitly states Doomsday's regrow from memory power is a result of Raphael Arce powers rather than its adaptive powers(which the comic explicitly states). Only your conjectures. Plus a lot more unnecessary flaming and aggressive words.

Well, insults don't create conversation and you apparently cling on to your opinions. So I will walk away and let you get the last word here if you want.

Makes sense considering even among humans not all people are created equal. 🙂 👆

It's hard to go back to JLA/Avengers and the Superman/Thor fight, what used to be a "WHOO-HOO!" moment turned into a "Man, he took that long to beat this loser? Superman sucks!"

Speaking of hard to go back to; Jim Starlin is a one trick pony.

Yes Infinity Gauntlet was great, but it was also a retread of old concepts. Thanos has a McGuffin, Thanos walks all over the heroes to get it, Thanos is never beaten yet never actually gets what he wants, rince and repeat.

You see the same exact formula with Synnar, or PC Mongul, or any pet villian. Every one will beat down heavy hitters, outsmart the smarties, out fox the abstracts. They never ever get a comeuppance. They are immune to Karma.

Compare with Darkseid. Superman beat him, what, once? Twice? He also beat Superman way more (Via BFR or capturing or old fashioned beat downs with or without the OE), and fought hiim to a draw many other times. Darkseid is menacing and powerful, but not completely unbeatable.

And yes, Thanos has lost to God Doom and others, but that is a hollow victory if it's a neutered Thanos.

Originally posted by cdtm
Yes Infinity Gauntlet was great, but it was also a retread of old concepts.

Originally posted by cdtm
Thanos has a McGuffin, Thanos walks all over the heroes to get it, Thanos is never beaten yet never actually gets what he wants, rince and repeat.

Originally posted by cdtm
You see the same exact formula with Synnar, or PC Mongul, or any pet villian.

Originally posted by cdtm
Compare with Darkseid. Superman beat him, what, once? Twice? He also beat Superman way more (Via BFR or capturing or old fashioned beat downs with or without the OE), and fought hiim to a draw many other times. Darkseid is menacing and powerful, but not completely unbeatable.

Originally posted by cdtm
And yes, Thanos has lost to God Doom and others, but that is a hollow victory if it's a neutered Thanos.

Batman vs bat family

Originally posted by abhilegend
Batman vs bat family

the flash box office flop is crazy

just watched the movie, it's amazing

Penderan already getting people banned on CBR because Bruce beat down Cassandra.