Comic Book Questions & Discussion

Originally posted by ODG
^ The macguffin metal, mysterium, having undefined qualities shouldn't lead you away from possibility. It should lead you towards it. And it's already been measured as being less durable than adamantium. It's on par with secondary adamantium. Not sure how you can possibly ignore that on-panel fact.

And no primary adamantium has ever been distorted that way. Neither that Wolverine android nor Iron Man have that sort of strength to bend primary adamantium. Imagine a Wolverine with robotically enhanced strength and him stabbing at Cap's shield held by Iron Man. His claws wouldn't bend like that. No, Wolverine would just get pushed back. The claws wouldn't bend like that. Not unless you had an irresistible force against an immovable object ala Hulk or Superman. Neither of which the Wolverine android nor the Iron Man mark 72 armor can boast of being compared to.

Wolverithmetics is ignoring far easier, far more logical and far more obvious explanations afoot and instead reaching for absurd explanations to protect Wolverine's character. This notion that every Krakoan resurrected Wolverine has been reincarnated with inferior metal instead of mysterium just reacting weirdly with it is just such a notion.

Deal with it. Or don't.

I'm not ignoring it - as mentioned before , it could simply be writers ignoring/not remembering what's been said before - this has happened before, many times, after all.

It could be them not knowing (or indeed, knowing?) the scientific difference between hardness and strength in metals - again, writers not knowing/knowing science has happened before.

I am just not attributing a new property that hitherto has never been alluded to to explain it. THAT'S Wolverithmetics, to me. That's headcanon to me, where you're attributing it to an undefined effect.

Or it's harder than Adamantium. That's how I'm dealing with it - I'm not protecting Wolverine's character (lol) at all. We even see the skrunch, the forearm breaking etc. I am saying there's a new top dog in Marvel metals.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
I am just not attributing a new property that hitherto has never been alluded to to explain it. THAT'S Wolverithmetics, to me.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Or it's harder than Adamantium.

That's the other part of Wolverithmetics: delusional copium.

Couldn't the claws bending/skrunching/failing against Tony's armor have something to do with the [albeit undefined] "magnetic properties" of Mysterium that Wiz-Kid mentioned?:
https://ibb.co/8dF2xhq

Originally posted by ODG
No, rather you attributed it to all Krakoan ressurected Wolverines as being resurrected with inferior emetal skeletons. THAT'S Wolverithemetics, to me. Mysterium has already been stated to be not harder than adamantium on-panel. The only reason to ignore that is to try and downgrade what material those claws were made of. Which keeps the original Wolverine... somehow more special??? Pretend otherwise.

That's the other part of Wolverithmetics: delusional copium.

Strength =/= hardness, if you want to go there.

I was only offering Krakoan clone thing as a get out for people to cope with, if they wanted to square that circle (maybe I should have added more emphasis??). Otherwise, I'm perfectly happy with it being harder than adamantium (which it hasn't been said otherwise).

Originally posted by Galan007
Couldn't the claws bending/skrunching/failing against Tony's armor have something to do with the [albeit undefined] "magnetic properties" of Mysterium that Wiz-Kid mentioned?:
https://ibb.co/8dF2xhq

Maybe - but the way the forearm exploded, the way it just got skrunched, the way it's never been said to have any weird properties earlier adamantium just leads me to the simpler explanation, which is that there's a new top dog in Marvel.

^ I mean, Mysterium does have some very weird properties. Aside from being super-strong, it is also seemingly immune to all magics(Strange couldn't do a damn thing to the cane), and it couldn't be detected by the Peter-tingle, either... But it was originally mined from the WHR, so I'm not exactly surprised by said "bizarre-ness" -- we're probably just seeing the tip of the iceberg, tbh. /shrug

That said, Wiz-Kid also stated that Mysterium has some sort of exotic "magnetic properties" that haven't yet been completely divulged. So I think that *could* be a potential answer as to why the claws skrunched on impact so easily. Either that, or it really is orders of magnitude beyond Adamantium in the sheer "toughness" department(despite the previous statement that its strength is on par with secondary Adamantium)... Which is equally possible, given that writers essentially have free reign to do whatever they want with this material, atm.

Either way, I would still consider Mysterium to be the top-dog of Marvel metallurgy overall.

Originally posted by Galan007
^ I mean, Mysterium does have some very weird properties. Aside from being super-strong, it is also seemingly immune to all magics(Strange couldn't do a damn thing to the cane), and it couldn't be detected by the Peter-tingle, either... But it was originally mined from the WHR, so I'm not exactly surprised by said "bizarre-ness" -- we're probably just seeing the tip of the iceberg, tbh. /shrug

That said, Wiz-Kid also stated that Mysterium has some sort of exotic "magnetic properties" that haven't yet been completely divulged. So I think that *could* be a potential answer as to why the claws skrunched on impact so easily. Either that, or it really is orders of magnitude beyond Adamantium in the sheer "toughness" department(despite the previous statement that its strength is on par with secondary Adamantium)... Which is equally possible, given that writers essentially have free reign to do whatever they want with this material, atm.

Either way, I would still consider Mysterium to be the top-dog of Marvel metallurgy overall.

I mean, it's a macguffin, and if next week Marvel have a comic saying that it warps/weakens adamantium, then sure, I have no problems accepting it.

I just think it takes way more leaps in logic to assume it has special adamantium busting properties, when it's most famous user Logan and his clone have never been affected by it (despite being close to it), and to assume that this special adamantium weakening property wasn't activated when Kingpin's cane was being thrown about but is activated when stabbed, vs......

It's just harder than adamantium.

It just smacks of 'But but but Adamantium is the best!!!! And this upends the hierarchy, it means Mark 72 is stronger than Hulk, it means adamantium isnt the best, continuity!!!'

When my point is writers don't care.

^ I don't necessarily disagree. As I acknowledged above: Mysterium is a pretty new material in the MU, therefore writers have the leeway to basically use it however they want. If Duggan wants it to be straightup stronger/tougher than Adamantium, then it can be -- we're still in the inception phases with it, after all.

However, Mysterium has also been stated on-panel to have a strength equal to that of secondary Adamantium. Aside from that, it has been stated to have "magnetic properties" that have yet to be defined. That said, I think it's equally possible that said magnetic properties may have contributed to the claws skrunching on impact with Tony's suit. Based on what has already been established regarding Mysterium's exotic traits, I really don't think that'd be much of a stretch at all. /shrug

👆 let's see how it all shakes out.

how tf were a few mutants able to just hop over to the whr and mine the mysterium anyway? isn't the whr like the highest plane of existence in marvel currently?

Originally posted by DeadpoolXXX
how tf were a few mutants able to just hop over to the whr and mine the mysterium anyway? isn't the whr like the highest plane of existence in marvel currently?

In Immortal X-men 18 mutants were said to have a special connection with the WHR enabling them to enter it. Whereas as we've seen in all other instances (Sentry, Heimdall and Celestials) non mutants had to die to transition to this afterlife.

So the Five were able to gain access to it via a mutant circuit.

The Six harvested Mysterium, not the Five.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
The Six harvested Mysterium, not the Five.

Blonde moment. Youre quite correct. Thanks for the correction 👆

No worries.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Strength =/= hardness, if you want to go there.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
I was only offering Krakoan clone thing as a get out for people to cope with, if they wanted to square that circle (maybe I should have added more emphasis??). Otherwise, I'm perfectly happy with it being harder than adamantium (which it hasn't been said otherwise).

Originally posted by ODG
Umm... In the context of their conversation, Whiz-Kid literally equates mysterium's "durability" with its "strength":

But it's only been said to be as durable/strong as secondary adamantium???

To be fair that scan doesnt support your commentary.

The durability of the mysterium is compared with the kree hull liner and that is tested out via the bending attempts on said metal vs the mysterium.

However during the dialog the point is also made that its strength is on par with secondary adamantium.

Nowhere in that conversation does it state its durability equals secondary adamantium. JUST that that was the 1st thing being showcased (via the bending) with an aside point made regarding its strength.

The terms mean two entirely different things both in a general sense and a metallurgical sense.

^ I am at a loss.

Whiz Kid wants to start talking about mysterium's durability. Frenzy goes on to easily bend a wide rod of Kree starliner metal but wasn't able to do anything to a very thin rod of mysterium:
https://ibb.co/8dF2xhq

Yet you don't take that simple comparative demonstration as a test of mysterium's durability? When Whiz Kid is trying to talk about mysterium's durability???

Originally posted by ODG
^ I am at a loss.

Whiz Kid wants to start talking about mysterium's durability. Frenzy goes on to easily bend a wide rod of Kree starliner metal but wasn't able to do anything to a very thin rod of mysterium:
https://ibb.co/8dF2xhq

Yet you don't take that simple comparative demonstration as a test of mysterium's durability? When Whiz Kid is trying to talk about mysterium's durability???

Clearly at a loss as youve misunderstood my post completely.

The scene was a showcase of the comparative durability of kree hull liner metal with mysterium, with said showcase being demonstrated by Frenzy attempting to bend rods of both metals.

During the dialog of said demonstration Wizkid as an aside makes a point regarding another attribute....the strength of mysterium, comparing it to secondary adamantium.

You have conflated this reference with the durability test without any text to justify doing so.

Strength and durability are two different things in the English language and in metallurgy.

You made a mistake. It happens.

^ A metal's strength is its durability. A metal's durability is its strength. Are you suggesting that mysterium has lifting feats comparable to secondary adamantium lifting feats?

Because I do not understand how the comparative demonstration showcasing mysterium's durability and the quantitative comparison to secondary adamantium's strength isn't supposed to be a commentary of mysterium's durability/strength as if they were the same.

This discussion is taking a sharp turn from pedantic to absurd.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
To be fair that scan doesnt support your commentary.

The durability of the mysterium is compared with the kree hull liner and that is tested out via the bending attempts on said metal vs the mysterium.

However during the dialog the point is also made that its strength is on par with secondary adamantium.

Nowhere in that conversation does it state its durability equals secondary adamantium. JUST that that was the 1st thing being showcased (via the bending) with an aside point made regarding its strength.

Whiz Kid says "Let's start with durability." and then proceeds to explain that Mysterium is easy enough to shape at formation, "But once it's set ... it has strength on a par with secondary adamantium."

And then Frenzy tries and fails to bend it.

The line about strength isn't an aside point - it's the conclusion to the discussion on durability.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
The terms mean two entirely different things both in a general sense and a metallurgical sense.

Seems like the two terms overlap significantly in both materials science and in metallurgy. They both deal with the ability of a material to withstand force.