Comic Book Questions & Discussion

Originally posted by ODG
^ A metal's strength is its durability. A metal's durability is its strength.

False. They are two different attributes which do not necessarily correlate 1:1.

Diamond is harder than graphene. But graphene is stronger than diamond.

"Strength measures how much stress can be applied to an element before it deforms permanently or fractures. Hardness measures a material's resistance to surface deformation."

Toughness means something different altogether. Your leve of insight has lead you to conflate.

Originally posted by ODG
Because I do not understand how the comparative demonstration showcasing mysterium's durability and the quantitative comparison to secondary adamantium's strength isn't supposed to be a commentary of mysterium's durability/strength as if they were the same.

This discussion is taking a sharp turn from pedantic to absurd.

"I do not understand."

There you have it. That is the crux of the matter. The fact that you do not understand does not preclude the opposition from making complete sense.

Wizkid was giving a demonstration of mysterium in order to secure buyers. He states clear as day the 1st thing being tested is durability, thereby indicating that multiple attributes would be a part of the showcase.

The durability test was demonstrated via the comparative bending of the kree hull liner metal and a rod of mysterium.

AS AN ASIDE Wizkid mentions another important attribute...strength. Giving it parity with secondary adamantium.

The structure of the dialog may have gone over your head, but that does not excuse you trying to assert to us all, that we should ignore universally accepted English language definitions for strength and durability and instead accept your misinterpretation. 😬

^ Bruh, you're acting like I'm being misleading when equating a metal's durability with its strength. Yet, you're the one inserting terms like "hardness" and "toughness" when those terms weren't even present in the scan.

Quoted for truth:

Originally posted by Smurph
That's not at all what the scan says.

Whiz Kid says "Let's start with durability." and then proceeds to explain that Mysterium is easy enough to shape at formation, "But once it's set ... it has strength on a par with secondary adamantium."

And then Frenzy tries and fails to bend it.

The line about strength isn't an aside point - it's the conclusion to the discussion on durability.

Entirely different?

Seems like the two terms overlap significantly in both materials science and in metallurgy. They both deal with the ability of a material to withstand force.

Colloquially speaking though, most people do not distinguish between the two concepts. And if one starts a simple conversation about Flash's speed feats mingling the two terms, it makes more sense to conflate the two terms as if it were a single premise rather than anally distinguishing the two terms to pretend like there were two entirely different, quantitative premises at play such that they had nothing to do with the other.

Originally posted by Smurph
That's not at all what the scan says.

Whiz Kid says "Let's start with durability." and then proceeds to explain that Mysterium is easy enough to shape at formation, "But once it's set ... it has strength on a par with secondary adamantium."

And then Frenzy tries and fails to bend it.

The line about strength isn't an aside point - it's the conclusion to the discussion on durability.

Entirely different?

Seems like the two terms overlap significantly in both materials science and in metallurgy. They both deal with the ability of a material to withstand force.

Theres certainly overlap between the characteristics but they are not one and the same.

Wiz kid was doing a showcase of mysterium in which he was demonstrating its durability by having Frenzy doing a bending test of the metals:

https://imgur.com/QRsUzsl

During said showcase various attributes were discussed that had nothing to do with durability and yet were pertinent to potential buyers

The conclusion to the discussion on durability was the bending demonstration performed by Frenzy, not the reference to its strength which is a separate and distinct attribute within metallurgy. There is no avoiding that.

Strength, toughness and hardness are generally the attributes discussed in metallurgy. They generally correlate in real world physics but that is not always the case. Something can be extremely tough and have have low strength. Rubber for example.

Originally posted by ODG
^ Bruh, you're acting like I'm being misleading when equating a metal's durability with its strength. Yet, you're the one inserting terms like "hardness" and "toughness" when those terms weren't even present in the scan.

Quoted for truth: Is there a scientific difference between speed and velocity? Sure.

Colloquially speaking though, most people do not distinguish between the two concepts. And if one starts a simple conversation about Flash's speed feats mingling the two terms, it makes more sense to conflate the two terms as if it were a single premise rather than anally distinguishing the two terms to pretend like there were two entirely different, quantitative premises at play such that they had nothing to do with the other.

No ones accusing you of being intentionally misleading, i believe you genuinely believe what youre saying.

Referring to colloquial practices is irrelevant when we're not dealing with a conversation between Jubilee and Dazzler but instead geniuses and leaders of space on technical matters.

I repeat....both in the english language and in a metallurgical sense, there are clear distinctions between strength and durability. Are there relationships between the two? Yes. Do they always correlate 1:1? ❌

Your interpretation demands ignoring the definitions of words. Be humble and just accept youre wrong here.

On one side of your mouth you admit that the characteristics of a metal's strength and durability have overlap.

And then on the other side of your mouth you insist they are separate and distinct attributes within metallurgy.

Taking the conversation and scene as a whole, somehow comparing mysterium's "strength" to secondary adamantium has nothing to do with mysterium's "durability"... the very subject they opened upon in their conversation.

. . . . .

"So how durable is Cap's shield exactly? Well... Cap's shield is stronger than primary adamantium."

Somehow, this simple statement must be fastidiously parsed to be about two completely unrelated concepts that cannot at all be conflated even though that's how people speak English colloquially. Cuz... metallurgy?

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Theres certainly overlap between the characteristics but they are not one and the same.

And given that they overlap, as you say, it makes sense within the context of the scene that Wiz Kid uses the terms interchangeably.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
The conclusion to the discussion on durability was the bending demonstration performed by Frenzy, not the reference to its strength which is a separate and distinct attribute within metallurgy. There is no avoiding that.

Oh, wait:

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Strength measures how much stress can be applied to an element before it deforms permanently or fractures.

It's spelled Wiz-Kid, btw.

Whiz Kid is a different character who died in 2008.

over

Originally posted by ODG
On one side of your mouth you admit that the characteristics of a metal's strength and durability have overlap.

And then on the other side of your mouth you insist they are separate and distinct attributes within metallurgy.

Strength, hardness and toughness are all distinct attributes meaning different things. The fact that theres a relationship between them doesnt change that. Theres a relationship between life and death, does that mean they are one and The same ODG or are they different, distinct but connected? 😕

Originally posted by ODG
Taking the conversation and scene as a whole, somehow comparing mysterium's "strength" to secondary adamantium has nothing to do with mysterium's "durability"... the very subject they opened upon in their conversation.

Never said that at all. You made the claim that Wizkid equated strength and durability. I corrected you and said that during a showcase of mysterium to potential buyers, Wizkid highlighted its appealing features starting with a durability test, during which he mentioned another related but distinct attribute....its strength. You erroneously conflated the two when they mean two entirely different things. A relationship does not change that.

. . . . .

Originally posted by ODG
[b]"So how durable is Cap's shield exactly? Well... Cap's shield is stronger than primary adamantium."

Somehow, this simple statement must be fastidiously parsed to be about two completely unrelated concepts that cannot at all be conflated even though that's how people speak English colloquially. Cuz... metallurgy?[/B]

Yes. Lets completely ignore who the convo involves and ignore all their expertise and act as if all comic character insights and statements are equal.

Out of disingenuity and ego lets make out as if a statement from Jubilee on quantum physics is the equal of the same statement from Reed Richards as opposed to just admitting you conflated two related but different things 🙄

We are dealing with geniuses and technical experts there to make procurements for their empires.

Originally posted by ODG

When all else fails it always comes back to the GIFs. You rolled those out when you mocked my interpretation regarding Enigma being a Dominion and as ever you ended up being both loud and wrong.

The trend continues.....

Originally posted by Smurph
In other words, when you said they were "entirely different", you were wrong.

Not at all. They refer to distinct but related attributes which are not interchangeable.

Originally posted by Smurph
And given that they overlap, as you say, it makes sense within the context of the scene that Wiz Kid uses the terms interchangeably.

Not given who Wiz-Kid is as a character and who hes talking to. That would make zero sense im afraid. 🙂

Originally posted by Smurph
Ok. So if durability means the ability to resist bending under stress, strength must mean something separate and distinct?

Oh, wait:

Strength measures how much stress can be applied to an element before it deforms permanently or fractures. Hardness measures a material's resistance to surface deformation. Being the strongest doesnt equal being the hardest and being the hardest doesnt equal being the toughest or strongest. As i stated previously graphene is the strongest material but diamond is the hardest. In metallurgy the terms are not used interchangeably.

This is a scene featuring geniuses and subject matter experts. Not Average Joes who you could argue might mistakenly conflate them.....like ODG 😱

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Strength, hardness and toughness are all distinct attributes

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Never said that at all. You made the claim that Wizkid equated strength and durability.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
When all else fails it always comes back to the GIFs.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
You rolled those out when you mocked my interpretation regarding Enigma being a Dominion and as ever you ended up being both loud and wrong.

The trend continues.....

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Not at all. They refer to distinct but related attributes which are not interchangeable.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Strength measures how much stress can be applied to an element before it deforms permanently or fractures. Hardness measures a material's resistance to surface deformation. Being the strongest doesnt equal being the hardest and being the hardest doesnt equal being the toughest or strongest. As i stated previously graphene is the strongest material but diamond is the hardest. In metallurgy the terms are not used interchangeably.

"There is no avoiding that." - you

Now you have provided metallurgical definitions for strength and hardness.

But what is the specific metallurgical definition of durability?

Originally posted by ODG
Why are you talking about hardness and toughness now? For someone so focused on meticulously scrutinizing the specific terms being used, you keep inserting terms that weren't even mentioned in the scene in question.

Because in metallurgy durability usually refers to hardness amongst other attributes. As for toughness thats just one of the key attributes referred to in metallurgy that i threw in there to demonstrate how the attributes are connected but not interchangeable or a 1:1 correlation i.e. rubber being tough but low in strength. Youre welcome 🙂

Originally posted by ODG
Because I can follow a simple conversation

I have yet to see evidence of this....

Originally posted by ODG
This conversation was pedantic from the start. Then it became absurd. Now it's mind-numbing. Adequately describing how feeble your discourse is now would require a novel. But pictures are worth a thousand words:

Like clockwork, when hes getting eaten up ODG becomes dismissive. 🙂

Originally posted by ODG
Not sure why you're still butthurt about the Enigma being revealed as a supercharged Dominion that is the result of a Dominion resulting from mutants, a Dominion resulting from posthumanity, a Dominion resulting from magic, and a Dominion resulting from cosmic powers all combined together. Figured we were both excited over this reveal.

Nice spin. But you do you son 😉

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Because in metallurgy durability usually refers to hardness

I sincerely pity how you twist comics to salvage a dumb argument you cannot simply walk away from.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
I have yet to see evidence of this....

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Like clockwork, when hes getting eaten up ODG becomes dismissive.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Nice spin. But you do you son

Originally posted by Smurph
But they're not completely distinct. As you say, they overlap. They both refer to a material's ability to withstand force.

You said strength and durability are "separate and distinct" attributes within metallurgy.

"There is no avoiding that." - you

Now you have provided metallurgical definitions for strength and hardness.

But what is the specific metallurgical definition of durability?

We're going around in circles here and youre being pedantic in exchange for relevance.

The crux of the matter is they are related but not one and the same.

Durability refers to the resistance to environmental condition. Thus its related to hardness, toughness and strength, but no single one of those attributes equals durability. There's a distinct meaning and characteristic but a relationship nonetheless. Theres a difference between a connection and being interchangeable.

So in this scene where Wizkid is doing a demonstration on overall durability, strength is a pertinent attribute that feeds into that discussion. But that is very different from strength being used as a synonym for durability as was basically claimed. 🙂

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
We're going around in circles here

srsly

Originally posted by ODG
Since when did you become some KMC arbiter of what metallurgical terms mean in the context of a comic book conversation? You some metals expert? Somehow you get to conflate a metal's "durability" with its "toughness" but when I conflate a metal's "durability" with its "strength", somehow metallurgy overrides simple English. In a comic book conversation over fictional plot device magic metal.

Im not conflating a thing. Im going by dictionary and metallurgical definitions which are on the same page. Youre trying to argue for colloquialisms in a convo between comic book geniuses. An absolute nincompoop jester 😆

Originally posted by ODG
I sincerely pity how you twist comics to salvage a dumb argument you cannot simply walk away from.

Twist? Youre here redefining the English language to try and win a comic book debate. Pity yourself you drunk. 😂

Originally posted by ODG
I insinuated you're incapable of following a simple conversation, so... par for the course for you, pal.

Pot calling the kettle black. I habitually decimate your misinterpretations with a smile 🙂

Originally posted by ODG
I am not above ridiculing stupid when I see it being so insisted upon. And for someone who dishonestly equivocates over what words mean and don't mean (and you are the only arbiter of how they can be interpreted), why give you more fodder to twist what I'm saying? A .gif displays it amply.

Dont gimme that nonsense. Whether we're talking metallurgy or general English the words mean different things.

However you want to ignore the participants of the convo and who they are in the comic so you can save face and continue peddling your misinterpretation. If disingenuity had physical form.

Originally posted by ODG
What spin? Neither of us can pretend that the Enigma isn't anything less than a supercharged entity conglomerated from four separately sourced Dominions. Are you now disappointed at the reveal?

You explicitly mocked and condemned any suggestion that there was a relationship between Enigma and a Dominion, despite the wealth of evidence saying that was exactly the case. The reveal was no surprise to me. I expect it had you seething 🙂

Originally posted by ODG
And somehow that's our fault and not your's. Cuz... arbitrary inchoate references to "metallurgy" or somesuch...

srsly

Up off your knees and stop begging for support. 😬

Originally posted by GalacticStorm

So in this scene where Wizkid is doing a demonstration on overall durability, strength is a pertinent attribute that feeds into that discussion.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm

During the dialog of said demonstration Wizkid as an aside makes a point regarding another attribute....the strength of mysterium, comparing it to secondary adamantium.

You have conflated this reference with the durability test without any text to justify doing so.

Not a "separate and distinct" attribute, but in fact a related and pertinent one.

Concession accepted. 👆

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Im not conflating a thing. Im going by dictionary and metallurgical definitions which are on the same page.

👆

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
You explicitly mocked and condemned any suggestion that there was a relationship between Enigma and a Dominion, despite the wealth of evidence saying that was exactly the case. The reveal was no surprise to me. I expect it had you seething

kinda