Comic Book Questions & Discussion

I mean, you handwaving scans doesn't actually make those scans go away. That's the essence of IDLI, IDH.

There are depictions of his skeleton with adamantium connecting the bones. There are numerous examples of people failing to cut through his spine even while he's restrained. There's him telling Ba'al that he can't be pulled apart. There's Hulk trying and failing to pull him apart. There's Banner and WWH saying that his skeleton prevents them from permanently shutting him down. And there are numerous instances of him continuing to use his limbs despite losing all the muscle tissue.

Does it make scientific sense? No.

Do I feel the need to reconcile it with science? Also no.

It's clear that the dynamic has now changed and he can be pulled apart. There's no conflict that requires PIS to resolve.

Originally posted by Smurph
I mean, you handwaving scans doesn't actually make those scans go away. That's the essence of IDLI, IDH.

There are depictions of his skeleton with adamantium connecting the bones. There are numerous examples of people failing to cut through his spine even while he's restrained. There's him telling Ba'al that he can't be pulled apart. There's Hulk trying and failing to pull him apart. There's Banner and WWH saying that his skeleton prevents them from permanently shutting him down. And there are numerous instances of him continuing to use his limbs despite losing all the muscle tissue.

Does it make scientific sense? No.

Do I feel the need to reconcile it with science? Also no.

It's clear that the dynamic has now changed and he can be pulled apart. There's no conflict that requires PIS to resolve.

But that's the thing. I'm not saying the scans don't exist, I'm saying they don't all support the argument.

1. Adamantium covering the bones - doesn't support his tendons and ligaments being covered.
2. Numerous examples - actually, he's not fully restrained, and is still able to move. When he is unaware he's being hit (so like with Sabes) he gets his spinal cord severed.
3. Ba'al failing - yep, agree on this.
4. Hulk failing - was he? Logan was strained, and Hulk wasn't applying his full strength (as he was holding onto his claws). Then Logan withdrew his claws.
5. His skeleton preventing them shutting him down isn't...proof of his ligaments and tendons being any tougher than normal.
6. There are also numerous instances of his teeth still being present despite all other tissue being gone.

So out of all that, all we have is a single instance - Ba'al.

On the other hand, we have numerous examples of his tendons and ligaments being perfectly breakable. Gorillas, Sabes with a sniper rifle, his jaw getting dislocated.....

The scans you speak of do exist. They don't support the argument that his joints are tougher, only that he has an adamantium skeleton, which no one disputes. Only the Ba'al scan does so, and even then it attributes it to his skeleton, and makes no mention of his ligaments.

Originally posted by Smurph

There are depictions of his skeleton with adamantium connecting the bones.

This is all I've been asking for, for several times now, across multiple threads. No one has posted this, so if you have it, then stop teasing me you ****.

Originally posted by Smurph

Cover

Young X-Men death

Pretty sure those are both alternate futures plus a cover, so you could insist on disregarding; your prerogative. But it all tends to reinforce Stilt's point that the skeleton is often treated as one fully-functioning interconnected structure with no weak points.

From my pov, the balance of editorial view on the skeleton changed with the modern era. And the current depiction makes more sense. But it doesn't make all the other stuff PIS, it's just comics changing with time.

yep. 👆 logan has never made sense. i also think, as with all things comics, different writers view his internal make-up differently so that adds to the confusion. i mean are you saying ds that his tendons are just...human like? well that certainly can't be the case. he'd be shredded by...spiderman. or any other person with any superstrength. make sense that a ligament can be enhanced by metal? no, of course not. but wasn't there some cursory explanation about his hf factor keeping him from being poisoned by adamantium or something? basically i've always lumped all the logan nonsense under that umbrella. thinking too hard about wolverine is never a good idea.

nope. 👇 Logan is like any other comic character. Subject to highs and lows. But with an added air of mystery and underdog status. Ideas that his skeletal structure or limbs were completely undetachable were simply forum-created myths that had no explicit evidence within the comics themselves. But... what kept those myths alive, was that there was no explicit evidence to the contrary either.

Until there was.

Taken in a vacuum, everything that's been occurring now, does not utterly contradict Wolverine's character before now. The only thing on-panel evidence does now is utterly offend forum-propagated mythological interpretations of Wolverine. Such controversy was not caused by the comics. It was only ever caused by the mythmakers. So they should just deal with it.

Originally posted by leonidas
yep. 👆 logan has never made sense. i also think, as with all things comics, different writers view his internal make-up differently so that adds to the confusion. i mean are you saying ds that his tendons are just...human like? well that certainly can't be the case. he'd be shredded by...spiderman. or any other person with any superstrength. make sense that a ligament can be enhanced by metal? no, of course not. but wasn't there some cursory explanation about his hf factor keeping him from being poisoned by adamantium or something? basically i've always lumped all the logan nonsense under that umbrella. thinking too hard about wolverine is never a good idea.

We know that his hf somehow changes adamantium at a molecular level to beta adamantium

None of it makes sense. Just don't think about it too hard.

Originally posted by ODG
Ideas that his skeletal structure or limbs were completely undetachable were simply forum-created myths that had no explicit evidence within the comics themselves.

Originally posted by Smurph
It's literally what he says when Ba'al asks why tearing him apart doesn't work. /shrug

Yeah he told Ba'al that he made that myth up on an internet forum, so that noone would try to tear him apart. Quite smart actually.

😂

Originally posted by Smurph
Pretty sure those are both alternate futures plus a cover, so you could insist on disregarding; your prerogative. But it all tends to reinforce Stilt's point that the skeleton is often treated as one fully-functioning interconnected structure with no weak points.

From my pov, the balance of editorial view on the skeleton changed with the modern era. And the current depiction makes more sense. But it doesn't make all the other stuff PIS, it's just comics changing with time.

Counterpoint as Cyclops takes AoA Wolverine's hand off. Alt future, as you say, but Cyclops blah blah blah

So I asked again, once more, for scans of his ligaments and tendons being covered by adamantium, by his bones being connected by adamantium. Again, nothing.

Originally posted by leonidas
i mean are you saying ds that his tendons are just...human like? well that certainly can't be the case. he'd be shredded by...spiderman. or any other person with any superstrength.

Originally posted by Parmaniac
Yeah he told Ba'al that he made that myth up on an internet forum, so that noone would try to tear him apart. Quite smart actually.

Lol that's the thing.

Over nearly 50-60 years' of comics, tens of thousands of appearances, the only clearcut scan we have is this instance, and even then, Wolverine makes no mention of his joints and ligaments, merely his bones (which no one disputes).

We have many instances of his joints and ligaments, however, being perfectly breakable.

In actual canon comics, not alt future covers.

Yet somehow, I'm being told that I'm the one who's wrong here....

Originally posted by Smurph
Pretty sure those are both alternate futures plus a cover, so you could insist on disregarding; your prerogative. But it all tends to reinforce Stilt's point that the skeleton is often treated as one fully-functioning interconnected structure with no weak points.

From my pov, the balance of editorial view on the skeleton changed with the modern era. And the current depiction makes more sense. But it doesn't make all the other stuff PIS, it's just comics changing with time.

And again with his teeth, shown clearly. Yet nobody here is arguing he has adamantium teeth, despite you once more showing how in comics, he is clearly shown with teeth intact. Why aren't you all doing so?

The cover wasn't an alt future. The alt futures weren't covers.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85

And again with his teeth, shown clearly. Yet nobody here is arguing he has adamantium teeth, despite you once more showing how in comics, he is clearly shown with teeth intact. Why aren't you all doing so?

I'm not arguing about his teeth because we aren't discussing his teeth. Why would I talk about them at all?

My point is that it is nonsensical to argue he has adamantium teeth, despite the evidence being used here is also applicable to his teeth.

One argument (he has adamantium teeth) is being discarded as silly (and rightly so) but in the same breath, we use the same evidence to argue his adamantium tendons.

Double standards?

One group is arguing comic book logic for a comic book character and another person is using real world logic for a comic book character. I cant even think of a middle ground for this debate.

Originally posted by carver9
One group is arguing comic book logic for a comic book character and another person is using real world logic for a comic book character. I cant even think of a middle ground for this debate.

But it's not 'using comic book logic' - I'm asking for comic book mentions of his bones being joined by adamantium. That's the difference here.

We don't even have any mention within any comic book, canon or otherwise, that his joints are any tougher. Just loads of 'well, using logic ,it must be so' and 'look at this art'......

There's literally no comic logic why his joints are the way they are.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
My point is that it is nonsensical to argue he has adamantium teeth, despite the evidence being used here is also applicable to his teeth.

One argument (he has adamantium teeth) is being discarded as silly (and rightly so) but in the same breath, we use the same evidence to argue his adamantium tendons.

Double standards?

If you want to argue that he has adamantium under his teeth, go for it.

But that's your implicit argument.

You wanting to distance yourself from such an argument (which is justified) speaks volumes.

The argument that the art shows his skeleton still functioning as a single unit isn't valid, as it is clearly just artistic error - the same error that shows his teeth still intact and perfect.

Originally posted by carver9
One group is arguing comic book logic for a comic book character and another person is using real world logic for a comic book character. I cant even think of a middle ground for this debate.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
But that's your implicit argument.

I have no position on the makeup of Wolverine's teeth (lol). I have neither considered the possibility of adamantium nor the possibility of no adamantium.