Episode IX: The Rise of Skywalker - Discussion Thread

Originally posted by Darth Thor
then the Disney trilogy is definitely designed with you in mind as the audience.

This is an attempt to appeal to any intellectual vanity I may have, it's a thinly disguised effort to call me an idiot for not agreeing with you in the hopes I will change my mind.

What I was basically saying when I wrote, 'Given what we've seen force users be capable of, do we really need to ask how.' Was that I don't think there's much need for an explanation how, because it will just essentially be boiled down to

Spoiler:
space magic!

The real, Earthbound reason is this though;

Spoiler:
A desperate attempt to save this trilogy because they so terribly messed it up.

Which is why I don't really want/need a how that much, (one that they'd likely ruin anyway) if you do, that's cool, not going to call you an idiot for it, it's just what you'd like to see, I'm fine with that.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
But on a Star Wars forum I do at least expect people to know how Return of the Jedi ended. And if they cant remember then check and dont just assume made up shit.

More appeals to my intellectual vanity I see. I'm not the one who thought he saw the Emperor get disintegrated, maybe you should check.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Will force choke you later. But can I ask what you actually liked about the film? Genuinely curious. Because with the last 2, despite my own criticisms, I can at least see the appeal to others. With this one I genuinely cant see anything.

As for your comparisons to Legends.... Well aside from the fact that youre comparing a film to a cheesy comic book, that comic book was made BEFORE the Prequels, so they didnt know it was contradictory to the Lore.

As for Palpatine at least Dark Empire

Spoiler:
EXPLAINED HOW HE RETURNED.

Not doing that is simply shit poor story telling.

Originally posted by samhain
We already hate you. 😛

Given what we've seen force users be capable of, do we really need to ask how

Spoiler:
Palpatine survived? Long falls don't kill if you fall down a massive tube in this universe, Luke, Palpatine and Maul all survived falls down tubes, yet Mace Windu (canonically at least) is never seen again after his fall, because there was no tube. Also, it's nice to know that Owen and Beru's farm survived 42 years in the desert without being filled in due to sandstorms.

Sidious doesn't merely fall down a long tube he fell into the Death Star's reactor where he blew up. And then the Death Star blew up! Of course we need an explanation how he survived especially since is undermines the climax of the entire Lucas saga. Maul surviving was also ass BTW.

^Nothing prevents disney from saying than the one we see in ep 9 is a clone palp trasnferred his consciousness into before he died in EP6. Or some shit like that

Agreed on the Maul thing.

Again, what I'm getting at is; any answer as to how will be rubbish and hated by everybody, can you think of an explanation that you wouldn't hate? Particularly if you hated the fact that

Spoiler:
they brought him back

How about

Spoiler:
as he fell down the shaft he activated a force power that teleported him to another galaxy where his energy was so depleted it took him so long to gather forces and power again, the activation of said power is what actually caused the explosion of DS 2.0.

Spoiler:
that wasn't Palps at the end of ROTJ it was one of his clones.

Both off the top of my head, both garbage, both could be made to make sense lore wise and both would be hated, but the other reason I'm not in any rush for an answer as to how is because since TFA I've had a feeling we'll get either a First Order standalone origin movie or (more likely/hopefully) we'll get a Clone Wars type of animated series which will explain the rise of the First Order, Snoke and

Spoiler:
Palpatine

So I wasn't really bothered by the lack of explanation in the movie because we'll get one eventually... and it'll be shit, just like it would have been in the movie.

If it's a shit explanation then they shouldn't bring him back. Simple as that.

Yeah, they should never have needed this type of Hail Mary (Fail Mary?) IMO, it's an admission of how badly they fvcked up.

Originally posted by Total Warrior
^Thanks 😛

About xPrimex's doubts about

Spoiler:
Sidious's survival, one of the rebels theorized that he was a clone, something similar to a DE scenario

Aniway, I personally liked this movie, I think it's much better than episode 7 and 8, probably better than 1 and 2 as well. 4,5,6 and 3 still beat it, but still not as bad as I thought. However there a some issues with it, there is no denying to that. Aniway:

Spoiler:
If I had to list the pros of this movie I'd say (not in order): - Palpatine's display of power, maybe the best feat of any force user on screen - Rey's parents actually being heirs of a powerful sith, not just some random thugs like EP 8 suggested - Abrams somehow explaining Snoke's demise by having him be a clone - Hux being an ally not because he actually cares about the rebellion and he saw the light, but just because he wants Kylo dead - The new imperial general gave me some Tarkin vibes, I liked him - Palpatine stomping Rey and Kylo as it should be, and rey defeating Palps only thanks to the help of all jedi - we actually saw a HUGE space battle with thousand of ships, not just like 20 - Ben talking to Han

about the cons: - the knights of ren have been useless - the whole anakin being the chosen one prophecy is being banalized - luke not getting feats not even as a ghost - would have liked more if C3PO didn't acquire his memories again, it would have made his sacrifice more meaningful

Overall: I'd give it a 6,5/7 out of 10.

And now I got to go to lunch, but later I'll say something else that will make everyone hate me

Spoiler:
Sidious possibly using a clone. I guess it's possible that his essence was transferred to a clone body upon his death, and the reason his body looks so deteriorated is because it can't handle the power of his spirit? I guess I'll go with that lol. I just wish it was explained better in the movie.

And I agree with you on what you like. I also liked how it

Spoiler:
didn't portray Kylo as a ***** for once. He was pretty badass in the first scene of the movie, and he actually beat Rey for once in their lightsaber duel (he knocked her down and looked like he was about to kill her before Leia distracted him). I thought his death was good too. And I'm not too upset about Rey being able to kill Palpatine, since the only reason she was able to do so was because she had the help of all the jedi spirits

So even though I do have a few issues with the movie, I definitely liked it the most out of the sequel trilogy, and I'd say it's better than TPM and AOTC too.

Originally posted by xPRIMEx

So even though I do have a few issues with the movie, I definitely liked it the most out of the sequel trilogy, and I'd say it's better than TPM and AOTC too.

What did you like about it?

Genuinely curious.

One good thing for me is the definitive answers on

Spoiler:
the most powerful Sith/Darksider and Jedi/Light sider of all time with no room for argumentation

I also like

Spoiler:
Leia being a Jedi. Even though thats stupidly inconsistent with the last 2 films

But thats pretty much it. Cant say I liked anything else. Whilst have a massive shit load of things I thought were terrible in this.

Originally posted by xPRIMEx
Yep, very lazy writing. Rumor is that they'll explain it more in the novelization at least, but the fact that they have to do that is ridiculous

Is anybody gonna waste money on that novel? 🙄

Originally posted by ares834
Maul surviving was also ass BTW.

Youre just annoyed he beat Obi-Wan on his return 😛

In all seriousness though Mauls return to TCW was mutually beneficial to the character and the show. And they at least attempted to justify it.

Originally posted by samhain
This is an attempt to appeal to any intellectual vanity I may have, it's a thinly disguised effort to call me an idiot for not agreeing with you in the hopes I will change my mind.

What I was basically saying when I wrote, 'Given what we've seen force users be capable of, do we really need to ask how.' Was that I don't think there's much need for an explanation how, because it will just essentially be boiled down to

Spoiler:
space magic!

The real, Earthbound reason is this though;

Spoiler:
A desperate attempt to save this trilogy because they so terribly messed it up.

Which is why I don't really want/need a how that much, (one that they'd likely ruin anyway) if you do, that's cool, not going to call you an idiot for it, it's just what you'd like to see, I'm fine with that.

Its up to you if you want to take that as an insult. Its simple logic that if you feel blowing up required no explanation then you are the target audience. Dont be so insecure about that.

Originally posted by samhain
More appeals to my intellectual vanity I see. I'm not the one who thought he saw the Emperor get disintegrated, maybe you should check.

And this if the semantics game youre playing. Fact is you thought the Emperor simply fell down a big hole. I corrected you and now youre non stop bitching about it.

Just man up and admit what you claimed was asinine defence of this film. But hey all power to you if you love this trash and are desperate to defend it.

Originally posted by samhain
I'm honestly not that bothered about Rey's power leveling between movies, Neo basically turns into Rain Man/God in the 2nd Matrix movie and check out how much of an arrogant prick Luke is by the time ROTJ begins, last time we saw him at the end of ESB he was being a ***** about his hand (Vader's revelation might have played some part here too) and he was being comforted by his twin sister whom he still had a crush on at the time.

I am kind of sick of the 'Luke is the greatest Jedi that ever lived' bullstock, the guy couldn't even intuit he was kissing his own fvcking twin sister. Bellend.

😆 Good point, but that’s more Lucas’s fault.

Rey’s skill also makes no sense, seeing as how literally no one trained her.

Even novice Jedi students need basic instruction with a lightsaber just to avoid accidentally injuring themselves.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Its up to you if you want to take that as an insult. Its simple logic that if you feel blowing up required no explanation then you are the target audience. Dont be so insecure about that.

And this if the semantics game youre playing. Fact is you thought the Emperor simply fell down a big hole. I corrected you and now youre non stop bitching about it.

Just man up and admit what you claimed was asinine defence of this film. But hey all power to you if you love this trash and are desperate to defend it.

You're being silly now, at no point did I say I love this film. I made a comment about about Sidious falling down a tube, (and I'll admit I had forgotten about the explosion at the end) you said he disintegrated, I pointed out that we didn't see that happen and then you started raging.

Rewatching TFA now, god they just kind of gave up on Finn and Poe about halfway through.

Originally posted by Total Warrior
^Thanks 😛

About xPrimex's doubts about

Spoiler:
Sidious's survival, one of the rebels theorized that he was a clone, something similar to a DE scenario

Aniway, I personally liked this movie, I think it's much better than episode 7 and 8, probably better than 1 and 2 as well. 4,5,6 and 3 still beat it, but still not as bad as I thought. However there a some issues with it, there is no denying to that. Aniway:

Spoiler:
If I had to list the pros of this movie I'd say (not in order): - Palpatine's display of power, maybe the best feat of any force user on screen - Rey's parents actually being heirs of a powerful sith, not just some random thugs like EP 8 suggested - Abrams somehow explaining Snoke's demise by having him be a clone - Hux being an ally not because he actually cares about the rebellion and he saw the light, but just because he wants Kylo dead - The new imperial general gave me some Tarkin vibes, I liked him - Palpatine stomping Rey and Kylo as it should be, and rey defeating Palps only thanks to the help of all jedi - we actually saw a HUGE space battle with thousand of ships, not just like 20 - Ben talking to Han

about the cons: - the knights of ren have been useless - the whole anakin being the chosen one prophecy is being banalized - luke not getting feats not even as a ghost - would have liked more if C3PO didn't acquire his memories again, it would have made his sacrifice more meaningful

Overall: I'd give it a 6,5/7 out of 10.

And now I got to go to lunch, but later I'll say something else that will make everyone hate me

Fair enough. I guess the choices just worked for you.

I think the

Spoiler:
Rey reveal would have worked much better back in TLJ. Given how the Internet was full of theories between TFA and TLJ

It also doesnt actually explain anything IMO. So was kinda pointless.

Personally I found the

Spoiler:
power levels too Dragon Ball or video game.

Spoiler:
Palpatines

Spoiler:
villain. From the biggest and arguably greatest villain in the saga, and he was just there to be a generic bad guy who will wipe out fleets from his fingers

Originally posted by Total Warrior

Spoiler:
now, before you start pushing me around with TK, I'll say one last thing. I think some criticism to this movie is a bit "unfair" and more influenced by nostalgia than anything else. I've seen people getting triggerred because Sidious is alive and well, making the whole chosen one prophecy less important to the story. I can agree with that, but let's not pretend we didn't have to face the same continuity issues in Legends. It was even worse! Not only did we have Palp back again in DE (like in diseny canon!), but in a short amount of time we also had Unuthul, Caedus, Krayt, Nyax etc all powerful darksiders popping up like nothing. I've seen people criticizing the movie because it had Rey defeat Sidious. First of all she did it with the power of ALL jedi who have ever lived (while rey alone was stomped alongside Ben), but is it really better to die to your own force power like DE Sidious in Legends? Also, Rey's feat of receiving power from other Jedi was also already present in Legends, where Dorsk 81 did something similar... Dorsk.. literally a nobody. At least Rey is a palpatine c'mon. Overall, I think this movie kinda fixed, at the best of its efforts, some of the mess 7 and 8 caused (Rey being so powerful because of being a Palpy for instance, snoke dying easily because he was a clone, Rey and Ben not ending up to be very powerful, or powerful enough to stand up against Sidious with just their forces) so I think more credit should be given to it. You wanna criticize it because Palp is still alive? Ok, I agree, but then you should also shit on Legends, becuase we had the same issue there.

Turning to Legends isnt a good defence. They went down the Palpatine resurrection BEFORE the Prequels.

And even a cheesy comic book such as Dark Empire

Spoiler:
gave a full and proper explanation of how the Emperor returned

But once DE was done, there was no point in them avoiding further Sith. Which is why Post the Prequels the canonicity of the Post-ROTJ stuff always seemed pretty iffy.

Ya’ll are too critical. The movie was enjoyable, yeah there was some stupid parts to it but I thought it was a vast improvement over TLJ and even TFA.

I do have to say though, the characters in this new trilogy sucked. Kylo was great, but Poe and Finn were very forgettable. I didn’t care about Rey either. I felt like I was rooting for the villain the entire trilogy lol

^I enjoyed the first hour or so (at least I don't remember thinking it was terrible while I was watching) but the 2nd half was so poorly thought out and executed, the fact that they had no real plan really came to the fore.