I think the funniest part is 'people' confusing Entropy [i.e. universe destroying energy] with entropic powers [which there are dozens of]. And furthermore, assuming that all blasts are the Entropy itself, with not only zero evidence, but after I already proved a negative [lol].
To have the guts to tout wikis at me is flat-out hilarious.
U need to get laid.. Like pronto..
Anyhoo, i admit i barely browsed this overlong convo.. But damn... that stick up ure arse gets only deeper.
K... So entropy aegis fired off entropic energies against DD.. Looks pretty clear...
I c ure scan blitz and explanation that other blasts were not "entropic" in energy.. u offered some background info, but but not sure if it absolutely refutes the other attacks as non-entropic.. At least the one against the earth dude. Imo. Similarities are striking.
And Oh also is what's being said here is that entropy blast will "entropize"( 😂 ) the one on the receiving end instantly?
I can’t quote anymore? What the heck!
@ Phil
We get it Phil! Entropic is incubated within John, I’m not refuting that. I’m having a hard time fallowing u though. r u saying that because The Entropic force is incubated within John, his not able to use this energies? Cause if this was the case, there is not a single mention in ur blitz scan suggesting this, got pretty good backstory dough. Fact is looking at the scan I posted it showed him using Entropic energy when blasting Doomsday, as was his statement “ entropic powers reducing u (doomsday) .” Same energy signature blast that took out The rock guy.
@ for the Imperiex Probe - if u can show them shooting entropy that’s even better for my case.
Anyhow... this site is too buggy for mobile usage lol.
@ for the Imperiex Probe - if u can show them shooting entropy that’s even better for my case.
Are you acting dumb on purpose, or do you legitimately don't get the point?
Your argument was that he used Entropy other than Doomsday - which you not only have no basis to stand on, but started from a faulty argument, based in a ill-informed position, that you wiki'd [lol]. The Imperiex Probes were used to illustrate your "all blasts are Entropy" nonsense.
You can't sustain your position in any kind of meaningful way, when you don't have the knowledge to even understand the basics. I'm pretty sure you still think "entropic powers" is the equivalent of "every blast is Entropy".
You literally used this scan vs Supes:
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/120267/4842020-6038612118-30808.jpg
You used "entropic power" as proof - when I showed you not only what that is, what the history of the armor is [shell of an Imperiex Probe + Apokaliptian military weapons], what's its purpose [to create Entropy for Darkseid to use], and what it can do as far as 'entropic power' goes [it can nullify and redirect any energy attack] - but "entropic power" itself [especially backed by Apokolips] is not the same as "all energy blasts are entropy". Thus the Probe example.. Again - lack of knowledge, lack of arguments.
It's frustrating, really, to actual go through the trouble of posting scans, and to see you go "muh pretty pictures kind of look the same"
Originally posted by Philosophía
Are you acting dumb on purpose, or do you legitimately don't get the point?Your argument was that he used Entropy other than Doomsday - which you not only have no basis to stand on, but started from a faulty argument, based in a ill-informed position, that you wiki'd [lol]. The Imperiex Probes were used to illustrate your "all blasts are Entropy" nonsense.
You can't sustain your position in any kind of meaningful way, when you don't have the knowledge to even understand the basics. I'm pretty sure you still think "entropic powers" is the equivalent of "every blast is Entropy".
Phil - Phil Phil!
You got it backwards - I don’t think you fully grasp the basic connection between John and the EA Armor AND! I’m not talking about how it was made or why it was made or the technology that it’s made from. We - I know that .. Wwway before ur scan blitz - thnx to google/ wiki - they got pretty good info and by far better than ur understanding of the topic. here let me shed some light of some important info that you’ve missed/ or didn’t know.
You’ve relied ur evidence base on the scan below \/\/\/ , a scan solely describing the equipments / armor / weapons as shown: Batarangs, WW bracelet, the EA armor ... etc
https://www.turboimagehost.com/p/40814316/Aegis0.jpg.html
the EA armor emits Cosmic energy and in that ur RIGHT... the armor does control/Project cosmic energy and like I said before that is not what is being debated but rather the Entropic energy that the armor is projecting, the Entropic powers within John which is not covered in the scan u’ve provided above because that bio only contains info of weapons that the heroes possesses/ wear.
Here let me farther explain:
Entropic Force was incubated within John by Darkseid which gave him Entropic powers. \/\/\/
https://www.turboimagehost.com/p/40814376/DarkseidPlan1.jpg.html
The EA armor allows him control over those powers.
Therefore this \/\/\/
https://comicvine.gamespot.com/images/1300-4842039/
https://comicvine.gamespot.com/images/1300-4842034/
Is entropic blast coming from John controlled by the EA armor. A Blast that is levels below the one’s use by Imperiex, therefore proving my point that not all entropic energy blast is equal in all scale.
Hopefully this allows you to understand the relation/ connection between John and the EA armor .
I'll let Phil address this more thoroughly if he wants, but a few glaring errors here that need to be addressed...
Originally posted by AmbientYes, this was literally a few pages before John discharged the one and only burst of true Entropy he was EVER stated to have used in the E/A... The act destroyed the armor entirely.
Here let me farther explain:Entropic Force was incubated within John by Darkseid which gave him Entropic powers.
https://www.turboimagehost.com/p/40814376/DarkseidPlan1.jpg.html
Originally posted by AmbientBut John explicitly states that he still cannot comprehend the suit on that very same page: "I still don't even begin to understand what this hunk of alien metal is about." If anything, IT was controlling HIM... That much was made abundantly clear across several issues.
The EA armor allows him control over those powers.
Additionally, getting an undefined "crash course in entropic power control" =/= "every single energy attack I produce is Entropy itself." I feel like Phil explained that more than sufficiently.
Originally posted by AmbientThe first scan IS the E/A generating a burst of Entropy. I know that for sure because: a.) it's stated right there on panel, and b.) because the suit was destroyed as a direct corollary of said Entropy usage. As mentioned, it was a one-off ability.
Therefore thishttps://comicvine.gamespot.com/images/1300-4842039/
https://comicvine.gamespot.com/images/1300-4842034/
Is entropic blast coming from John controlled by the EA armor. A Blast that is levels below the one's use by Imperiex, therefore proving my point that not all entropic energy blast is equal in all scale.
Hopefully this allows you to understand the relation/ connection between John and the EA armor .
Nowhere in the second scan does it state that the blast being emitted by the E/A is Entropy itself. In fact, the blast used by the E/A to KO Earthquake(that's the other character's name) in the second scan was simply referred to as a general "ENERGY PULSE" a few pages later:
https://i.imgur.com/fx0LbVf.jpg
For a point of comparison, this is how *actual* blasts of Entropy were described under the SAME writer(ie. Mark Schultz) in the SAME arc/timeframe:
https://i.imgur.com/svw5nqa.jpg
"...Imperiex's MATTER COLLAPSE AND ENERGY NULL..."
*So not only do the blasts LOOK completely different, but they are DESCRIBED completely different as well.
That being said, the argument you're trying to make here just... Doesn't work. The E/A only produced a single burst of true Entropy in all of its appearances, which destroyed the armor entirely. Every other blast it generated was simply generic "cosmic energy" of varying magnitude.
Oh and yeah speaking of entropic in relation to entropy in regards to DC universe - it pretty much is, it is what is needed for entropy as shown via blast by Impiriex - using entropic energy for entropy (there was no need to show a beam of energy for entropy) or requiring entropic force to fuel another Impiriex (according to Darkseid).
I’ll farther address Galan and this later it’s too late and tired am tired (double shift).
Originally posted by Galan007
I'll let Phil address this more thoroughly if he wants, but a few glaring errors here that need to be addressed...Yes, this was literally a few pages before John discharged the one and only burst of true Entropy he was EVER stated to have used in the E/A... The act destroyed the armor entirely.
But John explicitly states that he still cannot comprehend the suit on that very same page: "I still don't even begin to understand what this hunk of alien metal is about." If anything, IT was controlling HIM... That much was made abundantly clear across several issues.
Additionally, getting an undefined "crash course in entropic power control" =/= "every single energy attack I produce is Entropy itself." I feel like Phil explained that more than sufficiently.
The first scan IS the E/A generating a burst of Entropy. I know that for sure because: a.) it's stated right there on panel, and b.) because the suit was destroyed as a direct corollary of said Entropy usage. As mentioned, it was a one-off ability.
Nowhere in the second scan does it state that the blast being emitted by the E/A is Entropy itself. In fact, the blast used by the E/A to KO Earthquake(that's the other character's name) in the second scan was simply referred to as a general "ENERGY PULSE" a few pages later:
https://i.imgur.com/fx0LbVf.jpgFor a point of comparison, this is how *actual* blasts of Entropy were described under the SAME writer(ie. Mark Schultz) in the SAME arc/timeframe:
https://i.imgur.com/svw5nqa.jpg
"...Imperiex's MATTER COLLAPSE AND ENERGY NULL..."*So not only do the blasts LOOK completely different, but they are DESCRIBED completely different as well.
That being said, the argument you're trying to make here just... Doesn't work. The E/A only produced a single burst of true Entropy in all of its appearances, which destroyed the armor entirely. Every other blast it generated was simply generic "cosmic energy" of varying magnitude.
👆
By this point, he has been so thoroughly and savagely debunked - to the point where we legitimately even proved negatives, instead of letting the burden of proof be on him - that it's obviously a waste of time to try to educate the 'wiki-man' further.
I have less time to spend on comics as it is, and I'd rather not waste it like this. Damborg awaits.
I do agree with the concept that "uber powers" have been displayed more potent in large doses. Though that's more largely a case of things being mishandled by too many cooks. Realistically, entropic energy should only need enough quantity to cover a being to be at max effectiveness, as should anti-matter - which has been... well, inconsistent even in DC - but the possibility that things can 'resist' it seems wrong. We also have cases where powers that should act similar between Marvel and DC are displayed as wildly different. Then we have people using or denying feats being used from different verses based on the portrayals.
I do think too much emphasis is placed on skeletons in comics though. This goes back to things being mishandled. The skeleton reveal seems to be used to display finality and impact in a way that Doomsday simply 'vanishing' lacks. Him vanishing naturally leads to the possibility of teleportation, or wonder. Us seeing his skeleton shows us he was hit and killed. It works more effective and creates more trust than a little box saying "Doomsday be dead, it's whack," but he still died. All the durability his skeleton had didn't save him.
I realize what I'm saying is rationalizing something that happened on panel, but we see this sort of stuff tons of times in comics. Imperiex was portrayed as overdoing it in the issue, not as someone that did just enough to 'bone' Doomsday.
IMO at the point of death in comics, it makes no difference whether the being gets fully atomized or skeletonized. It all depends on how the artist wants to draw it, or the message the writer wants to leave. It does seem being atomized creates an opening for lazy writers to bring a being back though. Though the crafty writer can work with either.
That being said, even following this, it took entropy operating as entropy to kill Doomsday; even following the skeleton trope. Naturally something less can kill him, we just don't know what could based on the gap. It's a limit, not a minimum, but it creates a wide gap that you can't possibly gauge. I don't think Surfer can output enough power in either case to put down DD to answer the thread.
Originally posted by Galan007
The first scan IS the E/A generating a burst of Entropy. I know that for sure because: a.) it's stated right there on panel, and b.) because the suit was destroyed as a direct corollary of said Entropy usage. As mentioned, it was a one-off ability.
Originally posted by Galan007
Nowhere in the second scan does it state that the blast being emitted by the E/A is Entropy itself. In fact, the blast used by the E/A to KO Earthquake(that's the other character's name) in the second scan was simply referred to as a general "ENERGY PULSE" a few pages later:
https://i.imgur.com/fx0LbVf.jpg
Originally posted by Galan007
That being said, the argument you're trying to make here just... Doesn't work. The E/A only produced a single burst of true Entropy in all of its appearances, which destroyed the armor entirely. Every other blast it generated was simply generic "cosmic energy" of varying magnitude.
But what if it's not only about the varying degrees of output as Ambient is trying to put across? Maybe there's also degress of the amount of time one is exposed to entropy or entropic energies? *shrug*
Let's take Clark for example. Wasn't he ko'd by Imperiex's entropy blast, but was spared from the "killing blow" due to Darkseid removing him during the attack? Before he felt the full weight of the blast..?
https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/superman-165/exactly-how-hard-can-superman-punch-1460403/
Originally posted by celeyhyga17I see what you're saying, but imo it's a little too coincidental that the one time John used a bonafide Entropy blast, the armor disappeared immediately afterward. Given the complete lack of an explanation, I've always interpreted that as the suit being destroyed. /shrug
I don't think the suit was "destroyed". I was always under the impression that Darkseid was forced to separate John from the EA. It just wasn't shown after or explained in detail how DS did it.
https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-3764a1c1ec632bf55addcd7bbb994b10.webp
This was the very next page where Darkseid was true to his word. He returned John as he was all broken up just like before he was joined with the EA.
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/6/67877/3396014-apokolipsnowpage33.jpg
Originally posted by celeyhyga17On the following page a better shot of the energy pulse the E/A used there was shown:
This is true. The description of "energy pulse" doesn't help the other case. It just looks so much like John's attack on DD however.
Imo, that looks quite a bit different than the burst of actual Entropy it used later on.
Either way, this ultimately comes down to two things:
1.) The one time the E/A used a blast of true Entropy, it was specifically stated on panel:
2.) The armor went bye-bye immediately after doing so, because using Entropy was a one-off ability... It also left John himself clinically dead:
That being said, it seems fairly evident that every other blast the E/A used before that was not true Entropy(or any variation thereof), and I've yet to see any legitimate evidence that would suggest otherwise.
srug
Originally posted by celeyhyga17Even if that were the case, it wouldn't change anything where this discussion is concerned. Entropy is still Entropy(it doesn't have high and low settings), and Doomsday's skeleton withstood a 'complete' blast of Entropy from Imperiex.
This could be the case.But what if it's not only about the varying degrees of output as Ambient is trying to put across? Maybe there's also degress of the amount of time one is exposed to entropy or entropic energies? *shrug*
Let's take Clark for example. Wasn't he ko'd by Imperiex's entropy blast, but was spared from the "killing blow" due to Darkseid removing him during the attack? Before he felt the full weight of the blast..?
https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/superman-165/exactly-how-hard-can-superman-punch-1460403/
