Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
You mean dying and coming back is adapting to death?😳
He adapts...He adapts against death.
Continue your trolling please. It's making for a fun read in Carver's absence
What is "Doomsday's level" when it comes to resisting DNA manipulation? Establish that and then you can claim that "Doomsday's level" means a damned thing when trying to resist DNA manipulation. Just saying he is some mysterious and arbitrary high level isn't an answer to an ability established by his opponent.
I'm trying to get a clear answer about this ability of Doomsday's that you seem to be mystifying and revering as an auto win....even when confronted with a hard counter.
I sometimes think people lazily elevate his ability to some deus ex machina that doesnt need any sufficient explanation other than "He adapts"
Not gonna cut it
I've no doubt his adaptability is very OP....we've all seen the scans and read the books. I just dont think it's been tested against a direct attack on it's very functionality
Originally posted by Ambient
Looking at ur posted scans there Galan, it seems - to me Dd’s evo. counters varies depending on the type of attacks; physical/exotic . I see it very fast when its brute but when comes exotic as seen against krytonian sonics/ Waverider’s not so much, heck the chronal attack even work. Which tells me given the chance/ opportunity Surfer with MM attack can def. work. I’ll refer you again to the Ghaur scan I posted, this was a being with Tiamut, “the dreaming celestial powers” . Surfer was able to transmute this being with the power of a celestial. Waverider < Celestial.My 2 cents.
here's another way SS can take this fight albeit cheap but probably easier... via Chronal time - wave.
Originally posted by Galan007
H/P Doomsday slaughtered Darkseid and numerous Imperiex Probes like they were low-level fodder(among many, many others.) The thought of him 'only' being trans-level is funny
Ok well it's a funny forum cos...don't have to agree with them but just throwing that out there.
Originally posted by Galan007
[b]The Master List (1/4)Tier 4 - Transcendent(Trans)
Doomsday (H/P),[/B]
Originally posted by Galan007
It should be noted that at this point in his chronology, Superman's natural powers were already MASSIVELY amped due to his exposure to Kryptonite X...When Henshaw attempted to kill Supes via blasting him with k-nite, Eradicator jumped in the way of the blast before it directly touched Supes(essentially sacrificing himself), and the bleed-over energies then passed into Superman. After this happened, Supes was not only returned to full power, but he felt better than ever:
https://i.imgur.com/A5Fc715.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/ZUOr1em.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/IMFlneF.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/PpaVx4Q.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/JqED6sp.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/TL1K0F7.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/jsqwvoo.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/8uYRKnL.jpg
"I'm rejuvenated in a way I never thought possible! Something tells me I'll be able to handle anything better than ever!"
______________________________________Soon thereafter(the same month/year the H/P arc began), it would be revealed that Superman had become immensely more powerful. Examples...
"Just tapped him a little... And he flew back like I hit him with my best haymaker!":
https://i.imgur.com/KgUftR4.jpg"Even using as little effort as possible, I'm still stronger...faster...and more powerful than EVER before!":
https://i.imgur.com/vyiofCJ.jpg
______________________________________Superman's amp was then expanded on...
Hamilton: "You're absorbing solar radiation --and OTHER energies-- much faster than EVER before! This is because you've been irradiated by something vaguely familiar to Kryptonite -- call it Kryptonite-X."
Superman: "The last time I was exposed to Kryptonite, it passed through the Eradiactor first... Recharging my powers instantly!"
Hamilton: "A bit of foreshadowing there, I'd say. Bluntly, there's no physical way to expend your energy fast enough. Your powers will keep increasing until your body can't contain them.":
https://i.imgur.com/O04ni6h.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/kuppq8g.jpg
______________________________________Superman himself mentioned his increased power during the H/P arc(before he had even obtained a MotherBox)...
"I'm BETTER than before, too! STRONGER.":
https://i.imgur.com/DNjZeeh.jpg
______________________________________His amplified power during the H/P-era was reinforced again here...
"After his recovery, [Superman] was stronger than EVER. Good thing, too -- 'cause Doomsday had cheated death as well! Even with the EXTRA power, he still needed some gizmo called a 'Mother Box' to HELP HIM stand up to Doomsday.":
https://i.imgur.com/xTntuCb.jpgSo as you can see- during the events of the H/P arc, Superman's natural abilities were hyper-amped to such an extent that he compared the power behind his LIGHTEST TAP to that of his BEST HAYMAKER before the amp.. And what was his BEST HAYMAKER previously? I'd say it was undoubtedly the final blow he used to 'kill' DoS Doomsday:
https://i.imgur.com/6dZAU4m.jpg...Food for thought.
That being said, MotherBox sensed the threat H/P Doomsday posed, and amped/equipped Superman specifically to handle him. IOW, it was an AMP on top of Superman's existing AMP:
https://i.imgur.com/4RGKnUR.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/9SoKBzh.jpg
"MotherBox sensed the situation, and armed me for battle with Doomsday! [...] Hopefully I've caught up to Doomsday's next level of evolution!"...Yet the amp it gleaned STILL wasn't remotely enough to contend with Doomsday, which is absolutely staggering given what MotherBox can do.
That's all very well but that still doesn't mean that to an extent that SS can't match that Superman in terms of power. Through high showings any superhero can 'amp' themselves to greatly exceed what they could previoulsy do. SS in a weakened state was able to activate a device that was designed to be only used by characters that could match Thanos in energy output. SS should not have been able to do that on his best day let alone in a weak state so that clearly indicates that SS can massively increase his power, obvioulsy not for the time period that Superman was amped but he doesn't need to.
Furthermore SS was able to beat The Champion a guy who is capable of doing THIS!
I don't know about you but I think anybody who is capable of doing that could stomp out Darkseid like H/P Doomsday did. Furthermore you need to understand that when Champion appeared in Silver Surfer #1 his only previous showings were in that annual and in Siver Surfer #1 were the fight occurs they mention that annual, so the point of this was to emphasize how powerful The Champion was. Later showings have him jobbing like he did with Gamora and another encounter with Thanos were he casualy knocked him on the top of his head, that Champion had become a joke.
I hope you're not going to bring up the fact that Thing might have shattered Champions ribs because that really doesn't mean anything. That's clearly again a high showing were a much weaker character has a 1% chance of doing something but they need to do it in order to make the writer make a much weaker character look good against a much more powerful opponent. There were many showings in that annual that indicate that it should have been impossible to do eg ( Champion shrugging off a full force blow from Thor's hammer) and even in Siver Surfer #1 Thing and FF didn't think they would have stood a chance against Champion. so clearly Thing got lucky and it's not something that should happen under normal circumstances.
Originally posted by Galan007
It's a very small gash relative to Doomsday's person, lol. Moreover, Doomsday pulled the sword out and in the next panel the wound is healed. So yes, DD healed nigh-instantly, as I've been saying.
Except talking about the whole of his body is irrelevant because I'm talking about his neck. If that gash was on his neck that's almost all his neck gone.
Originally posted by Galan007
Correct. The artist 'drew it' the exact way I'm describing: DD's flesh was atomized by Imperiex's entropic blast, while his bone structure remained intact. Ergo DD's bones are VASTLY more durable than his flesh. 👆Are you talking about Superman managing to break the knee-protrusion of Doomsday during DoS? First and foremost, that was a far inferior version of DD than the one being discussed here.
It seems to me maybe your logic is that since a vastly more powerful being didn't destroy DD's body in one whole go then it means it requires Superman to produce that beings level of power to do it. It doesn't because the being wasn't using anywhere near it's full power it was just casualy using it's power which means that it's entirely possible for Superman using all his power to damage a small area of his body. Y'know an all out Thor has been able to crack Celestial armour right? Saying Thor isn't in this thread would be missing the point.
Well actually I was refering to H/P Doomsday but nevermind I thought that Superman had broken the bone claws that DD has shot into his shoulder but he had merely pulled them out. Yes actually we can bring up DOS Doomsday it doesn't matter if it's far inferior version of DD because eventhough H/P DD was physically superior to Superman he wasn't vastly supeior in terms of strength. For starters Superman was able to knock DD back with a one-handed backfist.
Originally posted by Galan007
Because an all-out strike from a MASSIVELY AMPED Superman only managed to give DD a minor fleshwound... Yet you'd have me believe that Superman(let alone Surfer) could have sliced through DD's BONES as well? Give me a break.
First of all it's not a minor fleshwound I don't know why you keep calling it that. It's minor in the sense that it didn't do any real damage and it healed quickly. You do realise I'm also refering to Superman flying at high speed with his energy sword in his hand going for his neck right? If you mean like he did in the comic where he is stationery and is just using his arms then yea. How about you post scans of where Superman uses his speed and try to argue that Superman couldn't chop his head of flying at that speed?
Originally posted by Galan007
Do I think a board-strike from Surfer is even remotely comparable to the power a MASSIVELY AMPED Superman can generate with an all-out swing from a New Genosian sword? Lol, absolutely not.Aside from that, who is the strongest and most durable being that Surfer has bisected with a board-strike?
There's this.
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=5060040
Now I need to expand on this. As far as I'm aware this is actually a more powerful version of The Hulk this is the Bannerless Hulk that cracked Onslaught's armour and even in that issue SS implied that this version of The Hulk was more powerful. Dr Strange in another issue stated that state he was in would also make him more powerful but it was also killing him. So depending on what issue you look at sometimes he appeared weaker sometimes he appeared stronger that issue and the issue after were not examples of him being weaker.
Now if you look at that scan that board is going nowhere near top speed in fact it's just casualy flying and it did that to an upgraded Hulk. How much damage do you think he could do if he energised the board and made it go 100 times the speed of light? It's not unreasonable to think that he could chop DD's head off, bare in mind I don't have to prove that SS 10/10 I need to prove 1/10 which means it's unlkely but it could still happen.
Originally posted by DeadlineYou should really review the rules of the Tiers thread to understand *why* DD is ranked at trans there. It's the same basic reason why Hulk is 'only' mid-herald on the list, despite having shredded through high-heralds in the past.
Ok well it's a funny forum cos...don't have to agree with them but just throwing that out there.
Originally posted by DeadlineOkay. You are clearly stuck on Surfer being able to match(or even exceed) Superman no matter how powerful/hyper-amped Supes was at the time, so there's no reason to drag this out any further.
That's all very well but that still doesn't mean that to an extent that SS can't match that Superman in terms of power.
Originally posted by Deadline😂 are you serious?
eventhough H/P DD was physically superior to Superman he wasn't vastly supeior in terms of strength. For starters Superman was able to knock DD back with a one-handed backfist.
*And that's with the additional MotherBox amp.
But whatever. You do you. 👆
Originally posted by Galan007
You should really review the rules of the Tiers thread to understand *why* DD is ranked at trans there. It's the same basic reason why Hulk is 'only' mid-herald on the list, despite having shredded through high-heralds in the past.
I'm well aware of the rules actually I'm responding to the context of you saying that DD shouldn't be in trans.
Originally posted by Galan007
Okay. You are clearly stuck on Surfer being able to match(or even exceed) Superman no matter how powerful/hyper-amped Supes was at the time, so there's no reason to drag this out any further.
I don't know about that, you're acting like I have a problem with DD winning. Is that version of Superman more pwoerful than Thanos? Maybe he is maybe he isn't but I'm not so sure. Is he more powerful than Marvel two In One Champion?
Furthermpore thare are high showings. I could argue that Thor could shatter Doomsdays bones are his bones more durable than Celestial armour? I don't think so.
Originally posted by Galan007
😂 are you serious?*And that's with the additional MotherBox amp.
But whatever. You do you. 👆
Galan you are subjectively deciding how to interpet that. You know it's possibly for a woman to knock a man down? Does that mean she can't chop his head off if she had a sword in her hand and was traveling really fast?
C'mon.
Originally posted by Deadline
Yes actually we can bring up DOS Doomsday it doesn't matter if it's far inferior version of DD because eventhough H/P DD was physically superior to Superman he wasn't vastly supeior in terms of strength. For starters Superman was able to knock DD back with a one-handed backfist.
Maybe we should reproduce the entire sentence that Galan responded to, huh?
Spot the sentence Deadline missed out.....
Originally posted by Galan007Nah Galan.
Pretty fast.The moment something 'new' was used against him...even if it was only used for a moment...he adapted to counter it entirely.
Superman initially thought that his flight would be enough to keep him out of Doomsday's reach. Doomsday then evolved the ability to shoot his claws out of his fists at very high speed, and reel them back in at will...on the fly:
https://i.imgur.com/4vqD7QD.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/ldTXr32.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/6n3dA5j.jpg
*Note that his claws were also equipped with a poison that was potent enough to affect Superman. That seemed like a newly-evolved ability as well.A page or so later, DD adapted beyond the New Genosian 'Ultrasonics' that Superman was actively using against him...also on the fly:
https://i.imgur.com/8PChZAa.jpgWe saw this again when Waverider used his powers on DD for a brief moment, just to glimpse his personal timeline:
https://i.imgur.com/jWBXyEa.jpgWhen Waverider attempted to use his powers in a completely different manner against DD a few pages later, we find that DD was not only immune to his temporal energy all together, but was able to cause a feedback in Waverider that sent his cumulative energies hurling out of control:
https://i.imgur.com/TxVkNMa.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/e82y4rH.jpgIOW, a single use of the power cosmic against DD here...no matter how rudimentary...could very well render DD immune to the power cosmic across the board(at least where Surfer's application of it is concerned.) Just like we saw with Waverider.
OBs [trans time/space manipulation that can erase being from existence], Astro-Force, Waverider, Mother Box -- all of these pale in comparison to, uh, DNA change [holy shit! that sounds so smart!]. Speaking of which, Galan, do you know what else changes DNA? Point blank nukes, and to a ridiculous degree. Radiation. etc. You survived a nuke? Congrats, you resisted DNA manipulation. Going through suns? Holy shit, that's like resisting God trying to change/destroy your DNA.
Look at Doomsday's DNA being shattered here.
https://imgur.com/a/meLlE
This discussion is like talking to a 6 year old about quantum physics. People have no idea what DNA is, what it's made of, etc. 'DNA' manipulation is only impressive/relevant [compared to what's being talked about here] if somebody is terribly, terribly dumb, or uninformed.
Originally posted by DeadlineBecause you clearly do. Ergo the level of ridiculously overinflated reaching you're doing for Surfer here.
I don't know about that, you're acting like I have a problem with DD winning.
Originally posted by DeadlineI presented MORE than enough evidence to depict the level of power Superman was touting against H/P Doomsday... And even with THAT much power he was still laughably inferior across the board.
Is that version of Superman more pwoerful than Thanos? Maybe he is maybe he isn't but I'm not so sure. Is he more powerful than Marvel two In One Champion?
You're ignoring this slew of evidence in favor of assuming that Surfer will start doing shit here that he's NEVER done before to a being on DD's level. That's clearly your prerogative, so like I said: you do you. 👆
Originally posted by DeadlineCould Celestial armor withstand an entropic blast, iyo?
Furthermpore thare are high showings. I could argue that Thor could shatter Doomsdays bones are his bones more durable than Celestial armour? I don't think so.
Originally posted by DeadlineThe goal post moving is hysterical. You literally JUST SAID that H/P Doomsday wasn't vastly superior to Superman in terms of STRENGTH:
Galan you are subjectively deciding how to interpet that. You know it's possibly for a woman to knock a man down? Does that mean she can't chop his head off if she had a sword in her hand and was traveling really fast?C'mon.
Originally posted by Deadline
eventhough H/P DD was physically superior to Superman he wasn't vastly supeior in terms of strength. For starters Superman was able to knock DD back with a one-handed backfist.
As if their actual battle in the comic wasn't enough to show the huge difference between them, I also provided an excerpt which flat-out states that MB Superman's STRONGEST PUNCH could only knock Doomsday down. Ergo there is obviously a gargantuan difference between their respective strength levels.
...But now you're trying to pretend like you were really just referencing Superman's ability to CUT Doomsday, lol? Good lord. Pick a stance and stick with it, ffs.
LOL at @philo
Imagine not understanding that DNA is composed of molecules called nucleotides. And that manipulating them would be child's play for Surfer....you know, since we've seen him do it already.
Now imagine comparing a nuke (really?) to the Power Cosmic and expecting to not be laughed at.
And you still have no answer for DDs adaptation ability simply being erased at its source.
But do keep posting irrelevant scans while you avoid showing any type of feat that would suggest he has ever resisted an attempt to depower/evolve him. You're doing exactly what I knew you would: placing DDs ability to adapt on a fanboy pedestal and making out to be more than what it is. A simple, biological function that can be unmade the same way it was made.
