Silver Surfer vs HP Doomsday

Originally posted by Galan007
a.) Comparable in what way?

That SS can do comparable damage to motherbox Superman.
1. SS has koed a non jobbing Champion. That Champions was trans, so is HP Doomsday.
2. Been able to match Thanos's energy output while in a weakened state.
3. Was able to transmute Obilterator's tech. I'm not sure why this is such a bad example when a significant portion of his powers comes from his tech. Obilterator is trans and his tech makes him so. SS was not able to match him in offensive energy and his tech was also highly durable. It was able to withstand the heat emersed in a molten planetoid and his body armour wasn't damaged by an angry SS charging it with his board (SS thought Obilterator had killed Mantis). This doesn't nccesarily contradict that he could chop his head off because a precise, calculated attack is more deadly than an attack done in blind rage.

Originally posted by Galan007

b.) MotherBox increased all of Superman's stats:
https://i.imgur.com/VsCYmay.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/6AAoOWk.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/fsJIOHg.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/npnWoUW.jpg

c.) The HV was used tactically by Superman to try and hurt DD more while he was 'injured' by the sword strike. It obviously didn't work, but still...

It didn't state to what level it amped his abilities. I suspect if had been a massive boost to his abilities I think it would have said so. The amp could have been as little as 10% or 20%. If that's the case don't see why we would think that Superman is beyond SS in power.

Originally posted by Galan007

It was a small gash to his left flank that healed nigh-instantly:

It's not a small gash, let me rephrase that if that was his neck that's a large portion of it gone. It didn't heal instantly it took more than a few seconds, with somebody who can react in nanoseconds that's a long time.

Originally posted by Galan007

Don't know why you think causing such a minor injury equates to Superman(nevermind Surfer) being able to fully decapitate DD..? To do that he'd have to get through bone as well... And it should go without saying, but DD's bone structure is obviously FAR more durable than his flesh:
https://i.imgur.com/e8bHr4v.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/q68AaQp.jpg

That doesn't neccesarily prove anything. The artist might have simply wanted to draw it that way. Most importantly in that comic Superman was able to break some of Doomsday's bone claws with one hand why would I assume that if he went for his neck with two hands he couldn't slice through it?

Originally posted by Galan007

A piece of New God tech being swung as hard as possible by an amped Superman > a board strike from Surfer.

You haven't specified how powerful the amp was. We know in comics that speed can massively increase your power why on earth couldn't SS's board travelling many times the speed of light not be able to produce more power than Superman standing still?

Originally posted by darthgoober
I'm not saying that HP DD isn't durable enough to withstand such an attack, but I'm not sure why it'd be out of character for Surfer to decapitate DD with his board. We're not talking about a hero or anything like that, DD is basically a monster and Surfer's done such things to monsters before...

Hasn't Surfer been able to KO Hulk with his board?

Originally posted by darthgoober
Not sure why teleporting him to the end of time would be necessary just for a forum win. Supes and Waverider were concerned with totally removing DD from the equation, so a temporary win wouldn't do for them. Any form of BFR would suffice for a forum win. And personally I've never understood why solar draining against HP DD to bring him back down to grey suit DOS DD levels isn't an option for someone like Surfer, but hey maybe that's just me.

Now there's an idea...a solar drain. 🤔

Doomsdays adaptability should let him cut the process off mid attack, unless he drains him near instantly, which seems unlikely.

But it should still be at least moderately effective.

So what's stopping DD from draining Surfer to a far easier degree? Surfer has the worst record vs power absorption of nearly any top tier.

Surfer wins.

OP says this is blasty blast only no? Hard to see him winning. Stalemate at best.

Doomsday wins and ain't even close.

Here's Doomsday, a being that overpowered Darkseid (a character vastly more powerful than Norrin Radd who has NO HISTORY of defeating a Darkseid level being, given his PATHETIC combat history against Thanos), countered and defeated the TEMPORAL Energies of Waverider, a universal temporal manipulator also more powerful than Norrin Radd, and walked through a MASSIVELY amped Superman who before he used the Motherbox (a new god technological device that can literally make folks one with Multiverse like Cyborg and can easily absorb the energies of the entire Oan Central Battery) and still came up short against Doomsday and needed the energy of Entropy at the end of the Universe to stop him.

Keep in mind this after Doomsday had already survived the full destructive energy of a Guardian (another being vastly more powerful than Norrin Radd) sacrificing himself at a far weaker level than what he was when he first lost to Superman who had to go ALL OUT to defeat.

And yet we've got posters talking about Norrin Radd cutting off Doomsday's head?!!!! When the heck has the Power Cosmic Loser to Thor managed to cut off ANYONE's head that is as Invulnerable as Doomsday? Where has Norrin Radd transformed someone as durable as Doomsday into another element? Cause he manipulated the molecules of a damn hand gun? Cause he once did something on a planetary level?

How powerful do these same posters think Darkseid, Wave Rider, Guardians, Superman, Imperiex Probes, and the rest of the Justice League are? Since Norrin Radd is going to be slicing Doomsday to pieces and turning him into a cupcake with a wave of his hand?

Is this the Molecule Man vs Doomsday or Silver Sufer?

Originally posted by Sensui
Doomsday wins and ain't even close.

Here's Doomsday, a being that overpowered Darkseid (a character vastly more powerful than Norrin Radd who has NO HISTORY of defeating a Darkseid level being, given his PATHETIC combat history against Thanos), countered and defeated the TEMPORAL Energies of Waverider, a universal temporal manipulator also more powerful than Norrin Radd, and walked through a MASSIVELY amped Superman who before he used the Motherbox (a new god technological device that can literally make folks one with Multiverse like Cyborg and can easily absorb the energies of the entire Oan Central Battery) and still came up short against Doomsday and needed the energy of Entropy at the end of the Universe to stop him.

Keep in mind this after Doomsday had already survived the full destructive energy of a Guardian (another being vastly more powerful than Norrin Radd) sacrificing himself at a far weaker level than what he was when he first lost to Superman who had to go ALL OUT to defeat.

And yet we've got posters talking about Norrin Radd cutting off Doomsday's head?!!!! When the heck has the Power Cosmic Loser to Thor managed to cut off ANYONE's head that is as Invulnerable as Doomsday? Where has Norrin Radd transformed someone as durable as Doomsday into another element? Cause he manipulated the molecules of a damn hand gun? Cause he once did something on a planetary level?

How powerful do these same posters think Darkseid, Wave Rider, Guardians, Superman, Imperiex Probes, and the rest of the Justice League are? Since Norrin Radd is going to be slicing Doomsday to pieces and turning him into a cupcake with a wave of his hand?

Is this the Molecule Man vs Doomsday or Silver Sufer?

Beautiful post
Couldn't have said it better myself

Originally posted by Sensui
Doomsday wins and ain't even close.

Here's Doomsday, a being that overpowered Darkseid (a character vastly more powerful than Norrin Radd who has NO HISTORY of defeating a Darkseid level being, given his PATHETIC combat history against Thanos), countered and defeated the TEMPORAL Energies of Waverider, a universal temporal manipulator also more powerful than Norrin Radd, and walked through a MASSIVELY amped Superman who before he used the Motherbox (a new god technological device that can literally make folks one with Multiverse like Cyborg and can easily absorb the energies of the entire Oan Central Battery) and still came up short against Doomsday and needed the energy of Entropy at the end of the Universe to stop him.

Keep in mind this after Doomsday had already survived the full destructive energy of a Guardian (another being vastly more powerful than Norrin Radd) sacrificing himself at a far weaker level than what he was when he first lost to Superman who had to go ALL OUT to defeat.

And yet we've got posters talking about Norrin Radd cutting off Doomsday's head?!!!! When the heck has the Power Cosmic Loser to Thor managed to cut off ANYONE's head that is as Invulnerable as Doomsday? Where has Norrin Radd transformed someone as durable as Doomsday into another element? Cause he manipulated the molecules of a damn hand gun? Cause he once did something on a planetary level?

How powerful do these same posters think Darkseid, Wave Rider, Guardians, Superman, Imperiex Probes, and the rest of the Justice League are? Since Norrin Radd is going to be slicing Doomsday to pieces and turning him into a cupcake with a wave of his hand?

Is this the Molecule Man vs Doomsday or Silver Sufer?

Savage

Originally posted by darthgoober
Not sure why teleporting him to the end of time would be necessary just for a forum win. Supes and Waverider were concerned with totally removing DD from the equation, so a temporary win wouldn't do for them. Any form of BFR would suffice for a forum win. And personally I've never understood why solar draining against HP DD to bring him back down to grey suit DOS DD levels isn't an option for someone like Surfer, but hey maybe that's just me.

Woah. I never considered solar drain.

Damn bro. 15 years doing this, and you just blew my mind. That’s actually ingenius. With the PC, Surfer could easily simultaneously drain DD while blocking all Solar Radiation from reaching him AND be in orbit, intangible, ethereall before DD covers 0.1 km much less 0.5..

That just the name of the game to me tbh. I thought his only option would be run/bfr. If he has an actual, potentially exploitable weakness, that’s a different ball game.

This is a forum situation where DD would beat the shit out of Surfer in a blasty/punch contest but it is utterly irrelevant because he’d never get the opportunity....

However, I would not be comfortable going all CBR route outside of hypotheticals.

Originally posted by Sensui
Doomsday wins and ain't even close.

Here's Doomsday, a being that overpowered Darkseid (a character vastly more powerful than Norrin Radd who has NO HISTORY of defeating a Darkseid level being, given his PATHETIC combat history against Thanos), countered and defeated the TEMPORAL Energies of Waverider, a universal temporal manipulator also more powerful than Norrin Radd, and walked through a MASSIVELY amped Superman who before he used the Motherbox (a new god technological device that can literally make folks one with Multiverse like Cyborg and can easily absorb the energies of the entire Oan Central Battery) and still came up short against Doomsday and needed the energy of Entropy at the end of the Universe to stop him.

Completely forgot about HP Doomsday beating Darkseid haven't read it in ages. I was simply going through HP Doomsday issue 3 and forgot the rest. He has been able to beat Champion and Obilterator who are both trans tier. This is what Champion has been capable of doing and this before he start jobbing.. Champions previous showings were referenced in the comicbook.

https://imgur.com/a/dLFL7Sx

Originally posted by Sensui

And yet we've got posters talking about Norrin Radd cutting off Doomsday's head?!!!! When the heck has the Power Cosmic Loser to Thor managed to cut off ANYONE's head that is as Invulnerable as Doomsday? Where has Norrin Radd transformed someone as durable as Doomsday into another element? Cause he manipulated the molecules of a damn hand gun? Cause he once did something on a planetary level?

SS didn't just transmute a gun it was technology from an Elder of The Universe those guys are in trans teir and as I pointed out that tech was overpowering SS. He didn't just transmute the gun it was his whole tech.

Well he was able to easily stun a angry Hulk. It didn't loook like the board was going anywhere near top speed.

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=5060040

Maybe the Hulk was weakened so.... To be fair Thanos did compare Champion with power gem to Hulk.

Just to point out regarding draining:

DoS Doomsday went 150,000 years without sunlight, buried underground, wrapped in a shroud. After being killed (so had his reserves emptied as it were).

Is he still dependent on sunlight? Arguably no.

Originally posted by Deadline
That SS can do comparable damage to motherbox Superman.
1. SS has koed a non jobbing Champion. That Champions was trans, so is HP Doomsday.

Originally posted by Deadline
It didn't state to what level it amped his abilities.

When Henshaw attempted to kill Supes via blasting him with k-nite, Eradicator jumped in the way of the blast before it directly touched Supes(essentially sacrificing himself), and the bleed-over energies then passed into Superman. After this happened, Supes was not only returned to full power, but he felt better than ever:
https://i.imgur.com/A5Fc715.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/ZUOr1em.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/IMFlneF.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/PpaVx4Q.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/JqED6sp.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/TL1K0F7.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/jsqwvoo.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/8uYRKnL.jpg
"I'm rejuvenated in a way I never thought possible! Something tells me I'll be able to handle anything better than ever!"
______________________________________

Soon thereafter(the same month/year the H/P arc began), it would be revealed that Superman had become immensely more powerful. Examples...

"Just tapped him a little... And he flew back like I hit him with my best haymaker!":
https://i.imgur.com/KgUftR4.jpg

"Even using as little effort as possible, I'm still stronger...faster...and more powerful than EVER before!":
https://i.imgur.com/vyiofCJ.jpg
______________________________________

Superman's amp was then expanded on...

Hamilton: "You're absorbing solar radiation --and OTHER energies-- much faster than EVER before! This is because you've been irradiated by something vaguely familiar to Kryptonite -- call it Kryptonite-X."

Superman: "The last time I was exposed to Kryptonite, it passed through the Eradiactor first... Recharging my powers instantly!"

Hamilton: "A bit of foreshadowing there, I'd say. Bluntly, there's no physical way to expend your energy fast enough. Your powers will keep increasing until your body can't contain them.":
https://i.imgur.com/O04ni6h.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/kuppq8g.jpg
______________________________________

Superman himself mentioned his increased power during the H/P arc(before he had even obtained a MotherBox)...

"I'm BETTER than before, too! STRONGER.":
https://i.imgur.com/DNjZeeh.jpg
______________________________________

His amplified power during the H/P-era was reinforced again here...

"After his recovery, [Superman] was stronger than EVER. Good thing, too -- 'cause Doomsday had cheated death as well! Even with the EXTRA power, he still needed some gizmo called a 'Mother Box' to HELP HIM stand up to Doomsday.":
https://i.imgur.com/xTntuCb.jpg

So as you can see- during the events of the H/P arc, Superman's natural abilities were hyper-amped to such an extent that he compared the power behind his LIGHTEST TAP to that of his BEST HAYMAKER before the amp.. And what was his BEST HAYMAKER previously? I'd say it was undoubtedly the final blow he used to 'kill' DoS Doomsday:
https://i.imgur.com/6dZAU4m.jpg

...Food for thought.

That being said, MotherBox sensed the threat H/P Doomsday posed, and amped/equipped Superman specifically to handle him. IOW, it was an AMP on top of Superman's existing AMP:
https://i.imgur.com/4RGKnUR.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/9SoKBzh.jpg
"MotherBox sensed the situation, and armed me for battle with Doomsday! [...] Hopefully I've caught up to Doomsday's next level of evolution!"

...Yet the amp it gleaned STILL wasn't remotely enough to contend with Doomsday, which is absolutely staggering given what MotherBox can do.

Originally posted by Deadline
It's not a small gash, let me rephrase that if that was his neck that's a large portion of it gone. It didn't heal instantly it took more than a few seconds, with somebody who can react in nanoseconds that's a long time.

Originally posted by Deadline
That doesn't neccesarily prove anything. The artist might have simply wanted to draw it that way.

Originally posted by Deadline
Most importantly in that comic Superman was able to break some of Doomsday's bone claws with one hand

Originally posted by Deadline
why would I assume that if he went for his neck with two hands he couldn't slice through it?

Originally posted by Deadline
You haven't specified how powerful the amp was.

Originally posted by Deadline
We know in comics that speed can massively increase your power why on earth couldn't SS's board travelling many times the speed of light not be able to produce more power than Superman standing still?

Aside from that, who is the strongest and most durable being that Surfer has bisected with a board-strike?

Doesn't Apokoliptian smog cover the planet, blocking sunlight, Galan?

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Doesn't Apokoliptian smog cover the planet, blocking sunlight, Galan?

However, I am confident that Doomsday's power isn't wholly dependent on solar radiation. As you mentioned, Bertron stated that Doomsday's body was nourished by solar energy that he could store for "A millennium"(ie. 1,000 years) if need be:
https://i.imgur.com/7ZUmxPX.jpg

But as of the Annual, a 'dead' Doomsday, whose energy reserves would've already been completely expended, was imprisoned for ~250,000 years in a sealed box, and buried thousands of feet underground on earth -- obviously NO solar energy of any type was able to reach him during this time. Despite this, DD still ultimately managed to recover/heal from his 'death' at the hands of Radiant, break free of said prison, and go on his tirade during DoS... And considering that even his deepest reserves of solar energy would have been entirely depleted for hundredS of thousandS of yearS by the time of DoS, it is perfectly logical to assume that he simply adapted beyond the need for any sort of solar nourishment... Adapting to become more 'perfect' is DD's whole shtick, after all.

...There's also the fact that Krypton(where DD was created) didn't even have a yellow sun, iirc, so exactly what type of solar energy would have 'nourished' DD in the first place? Just the red spectrum, or...?

@ds--yes it does.

@stoic--no, i do NOT think surfer is capable of meddling with dd's genetics. you're comparing evolving all the people on a planet--which is a cool feat--but not one of those beings was remotely comparable to dd. jonn and prof x are both easily capable of reading the minds of an entire planet. but have them try and read the mind of a SINGLE high level tp and what happens? SCOPE and DEPTH of power are wildly different in most cases. this would be one imo.

this is a being darkseid was VISIBLY afraid of. that speaks VOLUMES. darkseid's omega beams have some crazy feats--including....evolving a disintegrated desaad. the beams can do pretty much anything. we don't often think of them as versatile, but they are--enormously. take 5 mins to check out some of the feats they have. in their own way, the OE is nearly as versatile as ss.

and yet darkseid was AFRAID of dd and even went so far as to claim he was BEYOND death.

the implication is clear as day to me--dd was beyond darkseid's power. even the initial OE only worked for a very brief period of time before he evolved against it. given the feat history of the omega effect that is a pretty staggering thing. dd was evolving against superman on the fly as well. in addition, we know temporal powers had no effect on dd directly and again, looking at waverider's powers and feats, that is also staggering.

so we have an amped superman with a MB, waverider and darkseid, all utterly ineffective against this version of dd. each has access to hugely versatile feats. imo that puts dd on a level well beyond what ss would be able to affect--at least for long. i could see him devolving dd to a puddle, then turning around thinking he'd won, only to have dd rise and kill him. dd is simply on a level beyond ss.

as for sunlight--he went without for 250 000 years or something--and when he first woke up was still powerful enough to demolish the league--with ease.

in short, i don't see anyway at all ss could drain him to a point where dd would be weak enough for ss to finish--not before dd killed him. we could suppose he flies around trying to constantly drain him from a distance (confined by the bf), but he's never really done anything like that, afaik, and dd is plenty fast as well. he'd hit ss at some point for for. i'm still unsure if he was flying in owaw as well, but i know he did evolve the ability to fly by the time the gog wars version arrived so evolving flight is not out of the question either if it were actually required. it wasn't in that final battle with superman waverider.

@galan. 👆

Originally posted by Galan007
[B]It should be noted that at this point in his chronology, Superman's natural powers were already MASSIVELY amped due to his exposure to Kryptonite X...

When Henshaw attempted to kill Supes via blasting him with k-nite, Eradicator jumped in the way of the blast before it directly touched Supes(essentially sacrificing himself), and the bleed-over energies then passed into Superman. After this happened, Supes was not only returned to full power, but he felt better than ever:
https://i.imgur.com/A5Fc715.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/ZUOr1em.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/IMFlneF.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/PpaVx4Q.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/JqED6sp.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/TL1K0F7.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/jsqwvoo.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/8uYRKnL.jpg
"I'm rejuvenated in a way I never thought possible! Something tells me I'll be able to handle anything better than ever!"
______________________________________

Soon thereafter(the same month/year the H/P arc began), it would be revealed that Superman had become immensely more powerful. Examples...

"Just tapped him a little... And he flew back like I hit him with my best haymaker!":
https://i.imgur.com/KgUftR4.jpg

"Even using as little effort as possible, I'm still stronger...faster...and more powerful than EVER before!":
https://i.imgur.com/vyiofCJ.jpg
______________________________________

Superman's amp was then expanded on...

Hamilton: "You're absorbing solar radiation --and OTHER energies-- much faster than EVER before! This is because you've been irradiated by something vaguely familiar to Kryptonite -- call it Kryptonite-X."

Superman: "The last time I was exposed to Kryptonite, it passed through the Eradiactor first... Recharging my powers instantly!"

Hamilton: "A bit of foreshadowing there, I'd say. Bluntly, there's no physical way to expend your energy fast enough. Your powers will keep increasing until your body can't contain them.":
https://i.imgur.com/O04ni6h.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/kuppq8g.jpg
______________________________________

Superman himself mentioned his increased power during the H/P arc(before he had even obtained a MotherBox)...

"I'm BETTER than before, too! STRONGER.":
https://i.imgur.com/DNjZeeh.jpg
______________________________________

His amplified power during the H/P-era was reinforced again here...

"After his recovery, [Superman] was stronger than EVER. Good thing, too -- 'cause Doomsday had cheated death as well! Even with the EXTRA power, he still needed some gizmo called a 'Mother Box' to HELP HIM stand up to Doomsday.":
https://i.imgur.com/xTntuCb.jpg

So as you can see- during the events of the H/P arc, Superman's natural abilities were hyper-amped to such an extent that he compared the power behind his LIGHTEST TAP to that of his BEST HAYMAKER before the amp.. And what was his BEST HAYMAKER previously? I'd say it was undoubtedly the final blow he used to 'kill' DoS Doomsday:
https://i.imgur.com/6dZAU4m.jpg

...Food for thought.

That being said, MotherBox sensed the threat H/P Doomsday posed, and amped/equipped Superman specifically to handle him. IOW, it was an AMP on top of Superman's existing AMP:
https://i.imgur.com/4RGKnUR.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/9SoKBzh.jpg
"MotherBox sensed the situation, and armed me for battle with Doomsday! [...] Hopefully I've caught up to Doomsday's next level of evolution!"

...Yet the amp it gleaned STILL wasn't remotely enough to contend with Doomsday, which is absolutely staggering given what MotherBox can do./B]

Aside from that, who is the strongest and most durable being that Surfer has bisected with a board-strike?

loki...? 😖hifty:

Imagine not knowing that DNA is comprised of molecules called nucleotides. And the ability to manipulate said molecules gives one the master key to that DNA holder's entire physiology.

Because a Darkseid avatar trying to box with Doomsday and Surfer using his massive hax to alter Doomsday's DNA are even remotely comparable right?

Surfer is shown accelerating dudes evolution.

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
Imagine not knowing that DNA is comprised of molecules called nucleotides. And the ability to manipulate said molecules gives one the master key to that DNA holder's entire physiology.

Because a Darkseid avatar trying to box with Doomsday and Surfer using his massive hax to alter Doomsday's DNA are even remotely comparable right?

Surfer is shown accelerating dudes evolution.

..and that Darkseid avatar>>>Surfer and Thor together. Cry more.

Again anti energy defenses against the Radiant. Instantly adapted to Waverider. That is TWO flagrant Surfer analogues he wrecked with ease.

And that dude is nothing compared to a Mangog level being like Doomsday.