Let's talk about Men and Women.

Originally posted by Putinbot1
You see, I believe people grow apart often and I don't believe one person exists for everyone. I also feel friendship should never be something to avoid. However these are only my opinions.

Well, I agree somewhat. But outside pressures don’t really help and we owe it to those we care about to try our best and to make the environment as non-toxic as possible.

And, correct me if I’m wrong, but I do believe that you like to troll ppl online and if that carried over to your relationships (the love for mind games) that would imply an inherent trust toxicity within the relationship. At least from my perspective. I can’t really speak for you as I don’t know you well enough to do so.

The existence of your female friends (who maintain and hold your trust outside of your relationship) being possible relationship options and your seeming openness in discussing the numerous relationship options you have (which seem to be due to possible narcissistic tendencies) can further add on to an already toxic trust environment. Not always the case with all women (like my wife who is 100% secure of herself), but there are a good majority of them out there who would get unsurprisingly f*cked up by this.

For me, commitment is more than just getting what I want and need from someone else, it is also about giving what they want and need and be the person that they want and need to be with. The type of envirnoment I foster is just as important as the things I provide. As it is important that they grow happily as a person with me as much as I want to grow happily as a person with them. That is just my opinion, though.

Originally posted by Nibedicus
Well, I agree somewhat. But outside pressures don’t really help and we owe it to those we care about to try our best and to make the environment as non-toxic as possible.

And, correct me if I’m wrong, but I do believe that you like to troll ppl online and if that carried over to your relationships (the love for mind games) that would imply an inherent trust toxicity within the relationship. At least from my perspective. I can’t really speak for you as I don’t know you well enough to do so.

The existence of your female friends (who maintain and hold your trust outside of your relationship) being possible relationship options and your seeming openness in discussing the numerous relationship options you have (which seem to be due to possible narcissistic tendencies) can further add on to an already toxic trust environment. Not always the case with all women (like my wife who is 100% secure of herself), but there are a good majority of them out there who would get unsurprisingly f*cked up by this.

For me, commitment is more than just getting what I want and need from someone else, it is also about giving what they want and need and be the person that they want and need to be with. The type of envirnoment I foster is just as important as the things I provide. As it is important that they grow happily as a person with me as much as I want to grow happily as a person with them. That is just my opinion, though.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
What some people fail to realize is women are human.

They aren't these poor innocent helpless creatures who dindu nuffin and are solely the victims of life circumstances and can't be held accountable for their actions.

They aren't these paragons of virtue that men fail to be.

And they aren't these manipulative sociopaths whose mission in life is to break men.

Take women off the pedestals you've constructed for them, and realize that they are, in many ways, very similar to us. They're sure as **** just as fallible as us, yet lots of men hold on to this antiquated belief that women are these innocent angelic creatures who must be protected from the ugliness in the world.

How many times have we heard tales of a dude who got nowhere with a woman by trying to be everything he thought she wanted, instead of being true to himself and giving her the chance to appreciate the real him?

Originally posted by Eternal Idol
I haven't even read past the first page of the thread yet, but this is where I think a lot of men have ****ed up at least once, myself included.

Take women off the pedestals you've constructed for them, and realize that they are, in many ways, very similar to us. They're sure as **** just as fallible as us, yet lots of men hold on to this antiquated belief that women are these innocent angelic creatures who must be protected from the ugliness in the world.

Originally posted by Putinbot1
Online and real.life are very different. I never play mind games in relationships. I also never compete with the women I'm with. Most tell me I'm the least controlling guy they've ever been with and struggle to understand why I am happy to let them do their thing.

Mind games are not all about being controlling it can also be manipulative behavior (w/c is not really something ppl will notice if you’re good at it). I don’t know you IRL so I can’t really speak for you. But there are things we don’t even notice ourselves doing and what we do online (with filters removed) tend to be very close to who we are IRL (unless we are very repressed IRL).

Again, just an analysis based on what you mentioned happened relative to how you portray yourself online. If you are different IRL, then my analysis would likely be different of course, but since I’m not a witness to who you really are IRL, it’s all I have to go on.

Originally posted by Nibedicus
Mind games are not all about being controlling it can also be manipulative behavior (w/c is not really something ppl will notice if you’re good at it). I don’t know you IRL so I can’t really speak for you. But there are things we don’t even notice ourselves doing and what we do online (with filters removed) tend to be very close to who we are IRL (unless we are very repressed IRL).

Again, just an analysis based on what you mentioned happened relative to how you portray yourself online. If you are different IRL, then my analysis would likely be different of course, but since I’m not a witness to who you really are IRL, it’s all I have to go on.

In real life I do control a great deal, but I never control my family and loved ones if they are adults.

This is like a 4-page self-help thread. Several people have acknowledged your tendency for a specific behavior which you then deny or excuse and continue said behaviors. Also, control isn't just a measure in which you are able to dictate specific actions of others through "force."

The classic narcissistic tendency, look no further than your use of drugs to maintain what you believe is a more youthful you with androgens (and I'm sure several other drugs to minimize their side effects.)

I mean when people that don't interact with you on a daily basis can identify a specific pattern of behaviors that you clearly exhibit well then, denial is a *****.

Originally posted by Putinbot1
In real life I do control a great deal, but I never control my family and loved ones if they are adults. However, I've always imposed boundaries for my kids. It's part of the job.

Again, hard to really guage this on an online discussion but I believe the reaction of others has a lot to do with how they are treated over a long period of time. You might think you’re not manipulative or say that you are not, it might true or it might not be but my views are only based on how you behave online when there are no filters w/c I feel is how you truly are (or want to be) IRL. 😛

Originally posted by Putinbot1
that's a little different t, most conservatives are... racists. I don't have an obsession with Incels, I just feel most the guys who spout shit about woman, feminism etc do it because they are sexually frustrated. Unlike people like Peterson, I think economics has little to do with most relationships and I think these guys would be better off trying rather than getting angry and going down the Incel/alt right rabbit hole.

If that was your initial goal, well played.

Essentially we described a situation where "women will feel disposable because I talk to people". Why should a woman ever feel disposable? How does that notion even work?

Originally posted by Putinbot1
One of the narratives I see propagated on the Internet is women are heartless creatures, only out for money and men are always hurt by these bitches. Men always come out of it worse, I'd argue it's rare when a relationship.collapses either person is pain free and blame free.

I'll tell you a story, once upon a time, not so long ago. I said something, it broke someone I loved trust in me. I didn't cheat on her, but I'd been away working and got to close to someone else. The woman I loved was heart broken, they thought I had, they had a full breakdown and didn't work for almost a year, they developed a gambling addiction and racked up 8K debts, when they got a bit better I saw them offered to pay the debt. They wouldn't let me, they had lost everything. The person had another breakdown after seeing me again, a third party explained they'd cried on there kitchen floor for 4 hours saying how much they still loved me. I promised this woman's mother I would never seek her out again after she begged me on the phone not to speak to her daughter who had been readmitted...

Relationships are complex, people make mistakes women get hurt too.

The concept only.men get hurt really worries me as it's creating a generation of men with no empathy or sense of self worth, and women who only have contempt for them.

She sounds batshit man. You dodged a bullet tbh.

The next generation is so f*cked for dating. Men are more effeminate and women are more masculine, and I’d strongly argue that the sexes resent each other when that is the case, especially among younger more immature people. Young dudes still believe in Unicorns while girls are riding the feminist wave and not sticking to traditional roles. Ironically, relationships with a more masculine male are far more successful.

Also the last phrase is part of the problem. You just thrust the responsibility of things on to the shoulders of men. Let me tell you, there is no one more critical of other women than other women.

I will agree that I have noticed a growing trend of dudes saying f*ck it and really not giving a shit about women. In the sense that they just f*ck them and leave, and gave up on building a lasting relationship until they’re into their 40s. But only 20% of men can have that much casual sex, and those same men are the ones who expect their women to be more feminine. I for example use to balk at some of the body counts these chicks are racking up. 20 before 20? Lol, you’re a bro, not a lady. As I got older, I just stopped caring about shit like that but don’t entertain dating a women who doesn’t meet my criteria. Which creates contempt with some women when I tell them why they’re not dating material by my personal standards.

Originally posted by Putinbot1
I'd disagree, in real life, I'd actually consider myself far more formidable as people do not have a screen to sit behind. This thread uses me as an example as how women also hurt. It's interesting so many feel a woman can only be hurt by a narcissist. This to me, is another example about how guys online see women as the one who always do the hurting. Fascinating.

Well, I’m definitely not saying that a woman can only be hurt by a narcissist. There is a huge range of things that can hurt a woman. I’m saying that this may be the reason based on observable behavior coming from you. Not saying it is true, but we really can’t get into the nuances of human behavior outside of what you show in public. We’re saying it might not be because of her, but could well be due to things you do or how you acted.

Originally posted by Bentley
If that was your initial goal, well played.

Essentially we described a situation where "women will feel disposable because I talk to people". Why should a woman ever feel disposable? How does that notion even work?

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
She sounds batshit man. You dodged a bullet tbh.

The next generation is so f*cked for dating. Men are more effeminate and women are more masculine, and I’d strongly argue that the sexes resent each other when that is the case, especially among younger more immature people. Young dudes still believe in Unicorns while girls are riding the feminist wave and not sticking to traditional roles. Ironically, relationships with a more masculine male are far more successful.

Also the last phrase is part of the problem. You just thrust the responsibility of things on to the shoulders of men. Let me tell you, there is no one more critical of other women than other women.

I will agree that I have noticed a growing trend of dudes saying f*ck it and really not giving a shit about women. In the sense that they just f*ck them and leave, and gave up on building a lasting relationship until they’re into their 40s. But only 20% of men can have that much casual sex, and those same men are the ones who expect their women to be more feminine. I for example use to balk at some of the body counts these chicks are racking up. 20 before 20? Lol, you’re a bro, not a lady. As I got older, I just stopped caring about shit like that but don’t entertain dating a women who doesn’t meet my criteria. Which creates contempt with some women when I tell them why they’re not dating material by my personal standards.

*he's a narcissist.

Originally posted by Putinbot1
People seem divided mate, either I dodged a bullet or she's a narcissist. I personally feel there's a middle ground. Good post mind.👆

That's just benevolent sexism and utterly ridiculous imo.

Do you rack up 8k in gambling debt, and have a complete mental breakdown because the person you're dating got too close to a colleague? Does that even exist as a possibility on the spectrum of things you would do?

I don't think that is the case for a healthy and mentally stable individual. She would have done this sooner or later. Imagine having a child with someone like this, a REAL stressful event. How could you possibly trust a woman with this amount of self-control in being alone with a child and dealing with post-partum depression if it affects her? F*ck THAT!

Or maybe it's your fault? Are you not allowed to be human, and make some errors without your partner turning into Harley Quinn? I've quickly come to realize, that women aren't incapable of taking responsibility, but society has tried to push the narrative that a woman is by definition good, and cannot be anything but unless outside forces affect that innate internal goodness. It's utter nonsense.

You are the only one responsible for your actions. You do not define what you do by what others have purportedly done to you imo. Those are the type of people that f*ck someone else because their partner kissed someone else, and they become a whirlwind of chaotic emotion.

Cut her loose, trim the fat. You offered to pay her debt and she spent 4 hours hugging the kitchen floor. SMH. An irrational clown imo.

I mean, everyone is responsible for their own activities and dealings but we also live in a society where people are isolated and denied of their own feelings unless they assert themselves in front of others. People can be insecure for a number of reasons and when you've been in a loving relationship with anyone, you know you could hurt them and leave them in a bad position not to ever trust someone else again. They give you that power not because they want you to have it, but because they think there is no other option.

It's still a dramatic situation to see someone you care about undergo that kind of emotional crisis. When the people that will gladly say someone with a crisis is crazy are the same that want you to shut your emotions and man up, I believe there is a legit cultural problem between the lines.

Edit: I agree blaming Whirly's narcisism is lol though

Idunno, man. I agree that narcissism is not the sole reason here, definitely. Things like this is as nuanced as they come. Thing is, I KNOW I can break a woman (granting several factors are in my favor) if I really tried and I actually came close to it when I was younger (to the point where she threatened to kill herself if I didn’t call her back). For the longest time I thought she was just nuts. But she is now night and day compared to when we were dating. Maybe she grew out of it? I dunno. But I have to say that we are not at our best when we are broken. And we can have some pretty extreme and unreasonable reactions when exposed to prologned emotional pressure by something we value and cherish a lot. My point is that we should always be wary of what we do to others and how ppl behave has as much to do with what we do to them as who they really are. Their actions, of course, is all on them. But their RE-actions to what we do may well be something beyond their control and may not be as insane given specific context.

@DT no I wouldn't gamble, but I've never maybe loved someone like she loved me. Btw, cheers mate.

@ Bentley, also cheers mate, and I agree with your entire post.

@Nib, the truth is people are fragile and we never truly know how much is us and how much is them in all interactions as ranges vary. I can honestly say, I only ever behaved normally.

To me it seems that your only real culpability comes from a naivety of her depth of feelings toward you, and when worded that way, sounds like something literally every person on the planet has done at some point in their lives. From thinking a girl likes you when it turns out she doesn't to the other end of the spectrum where a person doesn't see the effect they have on someone else, we all misjudge somebodies feelings at some point in a relationship. That's partly why I encourage complete honesty in relationships, if problems are addressed sooner (as soon as they come up preferably) they don't have a chance to mutate into something far more threatening.

You also tried to do right by this girl for several months after the relationship ended, that's not the action taken by a heartless individual or a narcissist.