Originally posted by relentless1
Sidious beat Yoda and Mace "beat" Sidious? That can only happen if Sidious threw the fight which makes perfect sense from a storytelling perspective as he needed to force a choice from Anakin
Or it could have happened simply because they were 2 different fights, in 2 different settings under different circumstances.
Originally posted by CaveDude33211
Ahsoka Tano isn't a thing in the films - she's not real.Revenge Of The Sith establishes that Obi-wan Kenobi and General Grevious had never fought each other prior to the Battle Of Utapau.
TCW show directly contradicts that - meaning Ahsoka isn't real.
Meaning that by extension, the Rebels show isn't real, either.
TCW was Lucas creation so it is real. As in its Lucas Canon.
Rebels goes into Disney territory and becomes Disney Canon.
Both however are Filoni Canon, (if anyone cares about that).
Originally posted by Rockydonovang
the target audience of something isn't remotely relevant to the quality of its writing. This is why wall-e remains a masterpiece while transformers does not.
Think youve posted this in the wrong thread. But yes, Bingo.
No idea why people are getting into arguments over what age group the movies were aimed at.
Like how people are acting like Sidious beat Yoda... Their power mutually overloaded and sent them both flying with Yoda only losing due to being lighter (and thus was thrown further) and being positionally disadvantaged (he was standing on the edge of the pod). In the movie and script, it is blatantly apparent Yoda is Sidious's equal or superior.
Originally posted by HP Legend
Like how people are acting like Sidious beat Yoda... Their power mutually overloaded and sent them both flying with Yoda only losing due to being lighter (and thus was thrown further) and being positionally disadvantaged (he was standing on the edge of the pod). In the movie and script, it is blatantly apparent Yoda is Sidious's equal or superior.
in saber combat yes, its implied that Yoda disarmed Sidious but again that's terrain taking effect too; Sidious' movements were seriously hampered in the Chancellors pod
In Force ability its clear that Sidious is above Yoda; Yoda couldn't throe the pods as easily as Sidious and he was overwhelmed by Sidious' lightning. Granted he made one last rally to block the lightning with his hands but its obvious that that was his last stand evidenced by the fact that he retreated and even said aloud to Bail Organa that he had failed his mission; destroy the Sith
the movie goes out of its way to demonstrate Yoda and Sidious as equals, tbh
first Palpatine knocks down Yoda with the Force via sudden attack
then Yoda does the same
then Sidious pushes Yoda back with the pods
then Yoda pushes Sidious back with the pods
then they overpower each other simultaneously with Sidious having a better position
Originally posted by HP Legend
Like how people are acting like Sidious beat Yoda... Their power mutually overloaded and sent them both flying with Yoda only losing due to being lighter (and thus was thrown further) and being positionally disadvantaged (he was standing on the edge of the pod). In the movie and script, it is blatantly apparent Yoda is Sidious's equal or superior.
Yep.
Originally posted by relentless1
for the umpteenth time, vaapaad isn't a thing in the films; its not real. What is real though is Mace being known as Yodas second; Sidious beat Yoda and Mace "beat" Sidious? That can only happen if Sidious threw the fight which makes perfect sense from a storytelling perspective as he needed to force a choice from Anakin
Vapaad was cemented in multiple sources as being ultimately responsible for Mace defeating Sidious.
Why do you think Vapaad "isn't a thing"? Because of fvcking Disney?
Give me a fvcking break.
Originally posted by relentless1
in saber combat yes, its implied that Yoda disarmed Sidious but again that's terrain taking effect too; Sidious' movements were seriously hampered in the Chancellors pod
Conjecture. For starters, Sidious being solely hindered by the environment is not mentioned in any source and it's essentially just Sidious fans making excuses for his loss. The JN even states that the environment dangerous for both of them. Moreover, Yoda was pushing Sidious back long before they fought on the podium. It's noted Sidious took "refuge" (Source: ROTS Script) in the Senate chamber with "refuge" meaning "the state of being safe or sheltered from pursuit, danger, or difficulty" (Source: Google) i.e. Sidious was losing and was forced to retreat. Hell Yoda was displayed as superior in sabers in the film as well when he overpowered Sidious in two separate blade locks.
In Force ability its clear that Sidious is above Yoda; Yoda couldn't throe the pods as easily as Sidious and he was overwhelmed by Sidious' lightning.
Yoda couldn't throw the senate pods as easily because he had gravity against him not because Sidious was stronger. As for the final Lightning clash if you pay attention to their respective facial expressions Yoda is clearly overpowering Sidious in the final clash and only lost for the reasons I mentioned previously (positional disadvantages and weighing less).
As for evidence to Yoda's superiority in Force Power you have the blade locks I mentioned earlier. Yoda given he's at least 3 times smaller than Sidious and nowhere near as physically able he should not be able to overpower him in blade locks yet he does displaying superior augmentative ability meaning he likely possesses superior reserves. He was also clearly overpowering Sidious in one of their earlier lightning clashes in the script also suggesting he's superior:
"YODA unleashes a ferocious assault on PALPATINE, causing him to almost go over the edge. The Dark Lord drops his lightsaber but recovers with a BLAST OF ENERGY from his hands that surrounds YODA. YODA is deflecting the Sith Lord's lightning bolts. The energy bolts begin to arc back on the Emperor. It looks as if the Dark Lord is doomed. "
Overall there is substantial evidence for Yoda being superior to Sidious in both sabers and Force Power (their blade locks and both their Force Clashes).
Granted he made one last rally to block the lightning with his hands but its obvious that that was his last stand evidenced by the fact that he retreated and even said aloud to Bail Organa that he had failed his mission; destroy the Sith
Yeah, he failed because he lost the fight and because there was no second chance at killing Sidious. This doesn't prove he's less powerful than the latter and shouldn't be used as an argument to Sidious's superiority when all evidence points the opposite way.
Originally posted by HP Legend
Also, are people seriously acting like Mace is superior to Yoda? Lmao.
Mace and Yoda are at least equal as swordsmen.
Yoda has (somewhat) greater strength in the Force - but Mace has the ability to see and strike Shatterpoints.
Add in Vapaad, and Mace and Yoda are equals - especially since Mace could frankly defeat Sidious - whereas Yoda couldn't.
Originally posted by CaveDude33211
Vapaad was cemented in multiple sources as being ultimately responsible for Mace defeating Sidious.Why do you think Vapaad "isn't a thing"? Because of fvcking Disney?
Give me a fvcking break.
show me in the films where Vaapad or any style for that matter is mentioned; these aspects are apart of the extended canon which has been wiped unfortunately for you
Originally posted by relentless1
show me in the films where Vaapad or any style for that matter is mentioned; these aspects are apart of the extended canon which has been wiped unfortunately for you
So your answer is "duuur, Disney"?
Nick Gillard discusses Jedi/Sith fighting styles in the fvcking making of these films, you idiot.
The Lightsaber Forms of the Jedi and Sith were created by Nick Gillard, and they are very much part of the PT.
Disney is corporate-fan-fiction and garbage - and if you support it, then you've already ripped up your man-card and Star Wars fan-card, and you've lost.
Originally posted by relentless1
show me in the films where Vaapad or any style for that matter is mentioned; these aspects are apart of the extended canon which has been wiped unfortunately for you
Lightsaber forms 3&4 have been mentioned in Rebels. And have all been confirmed as existing in Disney Eu.
And its pretty clear from TCW and Rebels that Obi-Wan is primarily a defensive combatant (form 3).
Originally posted by Darth Thor
Lightsaber forms 3&4 have been mentioned in Rebels. And have all been confirmed as existing in Disney Eu.And its pretty clear from TCW and Rebels that Obi-Wan is primarily a defensive combatant (form 3).
interesting, i never watched much rebels so that'd be the first time its mentioned in canon
even if the styes are canon it changes nothing, the was no explicit use of shatter point or vaapad in the film itself and if youre going to start extrapolating that from what you see on screen then I can do the exact same thing with on screen cues that support Sidious taking a dive in that fight as well
^ I mean if the styles are canon, why would you assume Vapaad and Shatterpoint are not. In general Disney Canon is adopting the old EU. It only leaves the background of certain characters open, so they are free to explore it themselves.
But Things dont have to be specifically mentioned in a film to make it Canon to the films.
That said the nature of how Vapaad works was always pretty merky even in the old EU. But all we need to know is that Mace was a top tier duelist alongside Yoda and Palpatine, and that Vapaad (an extremely lethal style that skirts the dark side), was his form.
Originally posted by relentless1
interesting, i never watched much rebels so that'd be the first time its mentioned in canoneven if the styes are canon it changes nothing, the was no explicit use of shatter point or vaapad in the film itself and if youre going to start extrapolating that from what you see on screen then I can do the exact same thing with on screen cues that support Sidious taking a dive in that fight as well
Concession accepted. 🙂