Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
I agree, attraction is not a negotiation, and I to use to consider incels to just be a by-product of lazy behaviour.But this is clearly not true and a gross oversimplification of a growing problem.
This is an archaic way of thinking. I do not blame you for this. It is a tendency we in the West have, to blame people for their failings. Which I guess is understandable. This, however, is exactly the same reasoning that leads to the jailing of addicts, or the "pull yourself by the bootstraps" mentality.
I had this same perspective up until very recently. As I began to examine the data from Switzerland vs. U.S. on progress in addiction and mental health, I've come to realize that most people are unable to get themselves out of a hole, without significant support.
Celibacy is involuntary to an extent because it is a symptom of other issues, such as lack of ambition, poor hygiene, bad mental health, past abuse leading to poor social skills.
It can also lead an otherwise successful person by all accounts, to retreat from society.
Are you a sith? Why are you dealing with absolutes? Incels as a term cover a HUGE amount of people. If a vocal minority of those are hateful, it does not mean that all incels are hateful. Or even most of them.
It's not a political party you become a member of.
My main POINT, is that yes, a part of being an incel is an incapability of taking responsibility of your own failings BUT it is more than that. It can be a symptom of other issues. You need to ask yourself, and we as a society, what our goal is here?
Is it to point fingers and shame people? What purpose does that serve? My goal is to integrate as many people as possible into being productive, and economically viable members of society. All scientific data and research points that to do so, when a certain subset of a population has a problem, it is a reflection of a broader symptom, and the best way to help people overcome their issues is through support.
This can mean better education in physical activity, classes on social interaction and how to start a conversation with strangers, proper etiquette on social settings, access to mental health services etc.
The thing about a lot of incels, at least the ones posting on various "support" websites is that they almost seem to take pride in being an incel. They talk about how they did this or that to a woman in public, calling them a name, slamming a door in their face, being rude and unpleasant, it's a group some seem to want to be a part of for some reason. At the same time, they are filled with self pity and self loathing. Adam's point is accurate, while they may be involuntary in that they'd like to have sex, the attitutde and behavior they choose to exhibit is what causes them to be unable to have sex or relationships with women. They essentially want to have sex without making any kind of effort or change to themselves, and while I agree with you as well in that I think many probably have mental health problems, it is still unfortunately their responsibility to get help for those mental health problems if they do have them. If they instead decide to wallow in their own pathetic self inflicted misery and pity among others like them, who often continue to pressure them to stay as they are so as to not lose a member of their "community", then that is ultimately a choice.
Originally posted by BackFire👆 Good post.
The thing about a lot of incels, at least the ones posting on various "support" websites is that they almost seem to take pride in being an incel. They talk about how they did this or that to a woman in public, calling them a name, slamming a door in their face, being rude and unpleasant, it's a group some seem to want to be a part of for some reason. At the same time, they are filled with self pity and self loathing. Adam's point is accurate, while they may be involuntary in that they'd like to have sex, the attitutde and behavior they choose to exhibit is what causes them to be unable to have sex or relationships with women. They essentially want to have sex without making any kind of effort or change to themselves, and while I agree with you as well in that I think many probably have mental health problems, it is still unfortunately their responsibility to get help for those mental health problems if they do have them. If they instead decide to wallow in their own pathetic self inflicted misery and pity among others like them, who often continue to pressure them to stay as they are so as to not lose a member of their "community", then that is ultimately a choice.
Originally posted by BackFire👆
The thing about a lot of incels, at least the ones posting on various "support" websites is that they almost seem to take pride in being an incel. They talk about how they did this or that to a woman in public, calling them a name, slamming a door in their face, being rude and unpleasant, it's a group some seem to want to be a part of for some reason. At the same time, they are filled with self pity and self loathing. Adam's point is accurate, while they may be involuntary in that they'd like to have sex, the attitutde and behavior they choose to exhibit is what causes them to be unable to have sex or relationships with women. They essentially want to have sex without making any kind of effort or change to themselves, and while I agree with you as well in that I think many probably have mental health problems, it is still unfortunately their responsibility to get help for those mental health problems if they do have them. If they instead decide to wallow in their own pathetic self inflicted misery and pity among others like them, who often continue to pressure them to stay as they are so as to not lose a member of their "community", then that is ultimately a choice.
There was a Cracked article a little while ago about a former Incel. He mentioned how, despite their desire to finally have sex, once any of them actually did, the rest of the community sorta ignored or turned their back on them, as if they'd betrayed the cult.
Originally posted by Lord Lucien
👆There was a Cracked article a little while ago about a former Incel. He mentioned how, despite their desire to finally have sex, once any of them actually did, the rest of the community sorta ignored or turned their back on them, as if they'd betrayed the cult.
Yeah. "Cult" is a good word for their communities. The one on reddit used to be really unsettling to read through until it got banned.