World forger vs Franklin

Started by carver99 pages

He didnt do it under his own power either. He needed something to do it, more than just something. It's not a power ft for him.

Power wise, he's pretty uber. Basically treated Barbatos like nothing.

Originally posted by leonidas
ok, i disagree with your conclusion.

firstly, wf was indeed going to replace the prime reality with the future "justice formation". but this isn't something he was able to casually do. he needed a crisis anvil to form and he needed his hammer to light. neither of those things appear to be things he can just will into being unless a TRUE crisis is imminent--in this case in the form of mxy. as for replacing the prime--as i said, true. but he wasn't going to do it until AFTER mxy wiped everything out:

https://imgur.com/a/HAJdTlM

the new (he uses the term...) universe, won't descend until AFTER the old prime was unwritten by mxy. then the new one descends in place of the vanished one. it's not like he can casually replace mutliverses whenever he feels like it. not imo. it seems he needed the old one to be destroyed first, so he could place the new one in the void it left. he DOES reference the mutliverse, but in that regard, i think he means that the prime universe will have lost a great deal of time--his new prime is a FUTURE prime. he hopes that when judged, they don't notice how much more time has past in the NEW prime, relative to the rest of the multiverse.... that's my take at least.

the fact that he's just replacing the prime UNIVERSE is supported here:

https://imgur.com/a/bmw2aNp

as for wf's function: we know he is to populate the multiverse. how does he do that? by creating "worlds". i take that to mean universes. which makes sense since once he's created.....LOTS of universes (some of which succeed, others that don't) he will have created a....MULTIVERSE. almost PRECISELY the way franklin did so. he created a multiverse one universe at a time.

https://imgur.com/a/qL9rRLB

https://imgur.com/a/9R0A41C

soon each of the 3 realms would be populated with UNIVERSES. again, fitting wf's role as multiversal..."populat-er" one universe at a time....

an interesting side note--wf isn't, apparently, responsible for the creation of EARTH PRIME:

https://imgur.com/a/DY3XRyp

he didn't even know how it could have come to be. odd. here again he insists he creates "worlds":

https://imgur.com/a/KaHgMek

now i know there is a lot of merging terminology in comics, but i don't think i've ever once seen worlds taken to mean...multiverses. a lot of mixed terminology was used throughout the arc, tbh. universe and multiverse seemed to be almost interchangeable at times, which makes understanding the scope a bit....subjective, admittedly. even assuming the anvil held a new multiverse, there is still no reason to suspect wf did anything but build it one universe at a time. maybe he took only the BEST universes that he brought into being and stuck them all together? i dunno. no one does, because it's never really explained.

anyway, all of that just to say that i don't think wf is any more a multiversal power than franklin is. now it's true frank couldn't anchor the universe in place, but he could still shape them, but as we saw with heroes reborn, he IS capable of creating a universe on his own. in terms of overall power, i think frank and wf are very very close.

tl;dr /shrug

You don't think it requires fully multiversal power to instantaneously replace one multiverse with another(which is precisely what WF himself said would happen when his Hammer struck the Anvil)..? Yes, he needed the Hammer to be lit and the Crisis Anvil to be formed, but that is all still just an extension of HIS power.

As explained in Metal and JL: WF's primary function was indeed to populate the multiverse with an infinite amount of physical universes, which he did... Twice(once with the mainstream 3D multiverse, and again with his new and more evolved multiverse.) But that doesn't preclude the notion that he can act in a fully multiversal capacity when need be, which is something Franklin cannot do under any circumstances that I am aware of.

Also, Franklin can only conceive of full-scale universes. He cannot bind/solidify them or anchor them to reality... Owen had to do that for him. WF obviously does not have the same limitation where universal creation is concerned, so either way he should be considerably above Franklin, imo.

Tough question

WF has the scope. He has the ability to create not just a universe, but characters. He can also become any 3 dimensional being..exact copy.

I’d imagine, he should win with ease. He doesn’t have much feats so it does look bad if your the type of person to ask for feats of cosmic beings.

I’d vote for WF with the idea that his scope it much larger...it’s mot even close. Does the scope always translate to feats for battle...tough question

He only has one real feat, taking a hit from Superman. A hit that by all intent managed to destroy a multiverse. Shockingly enough, Superman wasn’t aim for the multiverse but rather the WF

and didnt wf create barbatos JUST to devour all the universes that he discarded into the dark multiverse? and he treated barbatos like his own little pet housecat lol

franklin can really only create pocket universes.making full universes isnt in his power/

wf rapes here

Agree that WF is NOT some casual multiversal power, that's not what was shown

He's easily universal, though. WF wins.

Originally posted by Demon of Heaven
Agree that WF is NOT some casual multiversal power, that's not what was shown

He can displace an entire multiverse with one hammer swing but he is not a multiversal power?

How so?

world forger's entire purpose was to birth lives in the multiverse

how is he not multiversal?

Originally posted by MrMind
world forger's entire purpose was to birth lives in the multiverse

how is he not multiversal?

Which we were told:

again:

and again:

that his job was to birth lives. And even created Barbatos to be his pet rat scavenger that he keeps in his pocket.

Originally posted by abhilegend
He can displace an entire multiverse with one hammer swing but he is not a multiversal power?

How so?

Context of story seems to escape you here

Originally posted by Demon of Heaven
Context of story seems to escape you here

Tell me the context then.

WF with ease.

Even if Franklin were on his level of power (he's not), he's still a b.itch deep down. Just like Reed.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Tell me the context then.

Sigh...You already know the context and seem to be ignoring it

Originally posted by Demon of Heaven
Sigh...You already know the context and seem to be ignoring it

Pretend I don't know and tell me what you think happened.

would it be more fair to say wf tools are multiversal?

and maybe the tools he uses are standard gear thus far so that makes wf universal?

Originally posted by staxamillion
would it be more fair to say wf tools are multiversal?

and maybe the tools he uses are standard gear thus far so that makes wf universal?

EXACTLY. Take the anvil AND his hammer out of the picture and just place WF in a room by his lonesome WITH NOTHING... he can not do anything multiversal/Universal. Nothing shows he can. It's like calling Reed universal because he have items that is non a universal scale.

Originally posted by carver9
EXACTLY. Take the anvil AND his hammer out of the picture and just place WF in a room by his lonesome WITH NOTHING... he can not do anything multiversal/Universal. Nothing shows he can. It's like calling Reed universal because he have items that is non a universal scale.

😂

edit

Originally posted by staxamillion
would it be more fair to say wf tools are multiversal?

and maybe the tools he uses are standard gear thus far so that makes wf multiversal?

EXACTLY.

In the next thread from Carver:. Green Lantern vs Gladiator, but we must take Hal's ring away.

Then Iron Man vs Magneto, but Tony is not allowed his suit.