Originally posted by ShadowFyre
Dont sleep on the action stars. I have seen them do some pretty cool combat training even for a combat vet like myself. Shooting in particular but I bet Tom has shittons of training and working out under his belt. He would maul beiber
I have to disagree. Choreography training is not real combat training. You simulate the movements to look legit but you never apply them against a fully resisting opponent.
Originally posted by FrothByte
I have to disagree. Choreography training is not real combat training. You simulate the movements to look legit but you never apply them against a fully resisting opponent.
Choreographed or not, you need an actual foundation to learn fighting moves, but i’ll let ShadowFyre rebut that if he wants.
Your comment on youth being the main factor in gassing out first is the one i’m refuting.
I spent 20+ years in the Army dealing w. kids just like Bieber (half my age, slim, decent shape, look like they can run) and breaking them physically.
Its not just youth, its actual training.
Cruise has spent most of his adult life getting into shape for action movie after action movie, and learning fighting techniques.
Bieber has...what exactly?
Not really looking too in depth w. this unless you can provide actual evidence of Bieber doing anything that would remotely give him a chance to win.
Everyone’s pretty much in agreement on what Cruise would bring, and i already posted a link w. supporting evidence on pg1.
__________________
Originally posted by FrothByte
I have to disagree. Choreography training is not real combat training. You simulate the movements to look legit but you never apply them against a fully resisting opponent.
Well of course it is not. But I bet you that in 40 year action star role, that tom cruise has more rhan just choreography under his belt.
Of course its different with a resisting opponent. So is Martial Arts training. Unless you are sparring you are basically doing choreography.
And of course they are not the exact same but you knkw what I mean.
Is Tom Cruise the person billy badass? No but he has more physical training and experience than your average "had bodyguards since he was like 9 years old canadian musician"
Originally posted by riv6672
^^^Yeah, you and i are in complete disagreement.Choreographed or not, you need an actual foundation to learn fighting moves, but i’ll let ShadowFyre rebut that if he wants.
Your comment on youth being the main factor in gassing out first is the one i’m refuting.
I spent 20+ years in the Army dealing w. kids just like Bieber (half my age, slim, decent shape, look like they can run) and breaking them physically.
Its not just youth, its actual training.
Cruise has spent most of his adult life getting into shape for action movie after action movie, and learning fighting techniques.
Bieber has...what exactly?Not really looking too in depth w. this unless you can provide actual evidence of Bieber doing anything that would remotely give him a chance to win.
Everyone’s pretty much in agreement on what Cruise would bring, and i already posted a link w. supporting evidence on pg1.__________________
I've fought in the ring 3 times: one a boxing match, twice kickboxing, then competed in an arnis tournament.
Whatever boot camp training you do, whatever forms training you do, it does not prepare you for the exhaustion you'll face when someone is actively hitting you back. Unless you've got proof that Cruise was actively sparring in his training, then his choreography training is really not that much different from Beiber practicing his dance moves.
I've also tried singing and dancing on stage for a charity concert. We did 3 songs. It was exhausting. Not that they can compare to martial arts training, but I don't think you realize that being a pop star takes work as well.
Finally, they're not going into this as they are right now. I assume they'll spend some time training for this. This is where youth will kick in. Any aging fighter can tell you that they're not as fast or as energetic as they were when they were younger. Beiber will be able to push himself harder in training and will be able to bounce back from exhaustion or injury far easier.
Is it a sure shot that he'll win? No. But I don't think you realize how brittle a 56 yr old body is compared to a fit 25 yr old. You're letting Tom Cruise's action star image cloud your judgement instead of seeing the facts.
Originally posted by ShadowFyre
Well of course it is not. But I bet you that in 40 year action star role, that tom cruise has more rhan just choreography under his belt.Of course its different with a resisting opponent. So is Martial Arts training. Unless you are sparring you are basically doing choreography.
And of course they are not the exact same but you knkw what I mean.
Is Tom Cruise the person billy badass? No but he has more physical training and experience than your average "had bodyguards since he was like 9 years old canadian musician"
Do you have any proof at all that Cruise has more than just choreography under his belt?
^^^😆
Originally posted by FrothByte
I've fought in the ring 3 times: one a boxing match, twice kickboxing, then competed in an arnis tournament.Whatever boot camp training you do, whatever forms training you do, it does not prepare you for the exhaustion you'll face when someone is actively hitting you back. Unless you've got proof that Cruise was actively sparring in his training, then his choreography training is really not that much different from Beiber practicing his dance moves.
I've also tried singing and dancing on stage for a charity concert. We did 3 songs. It was exhausting. Not that they can compare to martial arts training, but I don't think you realize that being a pop star takes work as well.
Finally, they're not going into this as they are right now. I assume they'll spend some time training for this. This is where youth will kick in. Any aging fighter can tell you that they're not as fast or as energetic as they were when they were younger. Beiber will be able to push himself harder in training and will be able to bounce back from exhaustion or injury far easier.
Is it a sure shot that he'll win? No. But I don't think you realize how brittle a 56 yr old body is compared to a fit 25 yr old. You're letting Tom Cruise's action star image cloud your judgement instead of seeing the facts.
Originally posted by FrothByte
Do you have any proof at all that Cruise has more than just choreography under his belt?
You do know Cruise wrestle in school right? That right there proves if Cruise gets him on the ground, it’s game over.
Also, Martial Arts is a form of choreography. You have to copy what you’re showed first, then implemented it by training.
Cruise has broken multiple bones doing his own stunts. The man was in his 40’s when he started his crazy stunts highs. Nothing Bieber has would stop Cruise from pile driving him to be ground.
Originally posted by riv6672
^^^😆So no actual proof of Bieber doing anything that would remotely give him a chance to win. gotcha.
My proof: Cruise is close to 60 yrs old while Beiber is in the prime of his life.
Your proof: Cruise has done action movies therefore he must know how to fight.
Which statement do you think is more bogus?
Originally posted by SquallX
You do know Cruise wrestle in school right? That right there proves if Cruise gets him on the ground, it’s game over.Also, Martial Arts is a form of choreography. You have to copy what you’re showed first, then implemented it by training.
Cruise has broken multiple bones doing his own stunts. The man was in his 40’s when he started his crazy stunts highs. Nothing Bieber has would stop Cruise from pile driving him to be ground.
No, I didn't know that he used to wrestle. That's what I was looking for and that's a valid reason for Cruise to win, not practicing fight choreography.
And no, martial arts isn't just choreography. That kind of thinking is what creates mcdojo's.
Originally posted by ShadowFyre
Well of course it is not. But I bet you that in 40 year action star role, that tom cruise has more rhan just choreography under his belt.Of course its different with a resisting opponent. So is Martial Arts training. Unless you are sparring you are basically doing choreography.
And of course they are not the exact same but you knkw what I mean.
Is Tom Cruise the person billy badass? No but he has more physical training and experience than your average "had bodyguards since he was like 9 years old canadian musician"
Look , I get it, nobody likes Beiber. I don't either. But you're basing your whole argument on the assumption that since Tom Cruise has done action movies, therefore he must know how to fight.
Do you realize how silly that sounds?
Practicing fight choreography doesn't mean that the actor has had fight training. Sometimes they do, but often times it's simply rehearsing a set of moves slowly, over and over till you can do it properly for the camera. In that sense it's really no better than dancing. Professional dancing at least needs you to do your dance in front of an audience without the safety net of being able to reshoot a scene.
I've watched Tom Cruise's fight scenes. Majority of the moves he pulls out are pretty much the standard punches and kicks that you get from standard action stars. I mean, they're shot and choreographed very well, but the moves he pulls out don't really have the finesse or complexity you'd see from someone who's had proper martial arts training.
My argument is based on hard facts: Beiber is bigger and in his prime, whereas Cruise is smaller and way past his prime. Yours is based on assumption.
Now someone else pointed out the Cruise used to wrestle in highschool. That's a valid argument, though it will depend on how good he was and how long he did it. Still, that makes me reconsider my position. But him simply being in action movies is definitely not enough reason to think he can overcome Beiber's physical advantages. That's like saying Charlize Theron can beat up James Franco simply because Charlize Theron has done a number of action movies whereas James Franco never did so.
"Justin Bieber Admits Tom Cruise Would 'Whoop My Ass'"
https://www.wmagazine.com/story/justin-bieber-tom-cruise-whoop-ass
Case Closed
Thank you all for playing bye
Aaaaand it might be on...
https://www.facebook.com/393177070777935/posts/2213541438741480?s=3627181&sfns=mo