Worthy Cap vs. Kurse

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
Except he was crouching against a VERTICAL blow. No one would expect him to fly away, it ain't a horizontal blow. Also, who is saying he held his ground? He was standing up all hurt after the cutscene. He obviously felt down by the blow, a shame the cutscene leaves that out.

You are actually wrong. If Cap was running towards Thanos that means he is aplying a vertical force against the blow, which actually means it's less likely for him to fly away.

[B]There is a big gap between flying away from a normal blow and resisting SEVERAL ENRAGED blows from the Mad Titan

'He was running' doesn't really cover that gap D.T. That's way evident, come on. [/B]

Actually you're completely wrong:

Worthy Cap is sent flying back at 2:41

YouTube video

And he's actually flung considerably further than he was at 0:26.

Are you beginning to see now how ridiculous your initial assertion was? You're comparing different moves in different parts of the fight in a desperate attempt to show a godly strength boost when there is no such evidence of that.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
Eh...I already did. Thor didn't endure anything. He was obliterated by Thanos and almost killed. What are you talking about?

0:55 - 1:00, Thor not only dodges Thanos sword throw (agility > anything we've seen from Cap btw, which I will bring to the Worthy Cap vs Ragnarok Thor debate), but he then goes toe to toe with Thanos in armed combat, where the result is that they disarm each other. This is a massive improvement to what we saw at the 0:26 mark.

But I've already proven you wrong on that. You CANT just show different moves from different points in a fight to prove some kind of amp, or just in general to support an agenda you have. It's absolutely ridiculous, which I've clearly shown you now.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
Evidence 3: Cap's blows

As I said, I can keep bringing evidence that Cap got boosted.

YouTube video

[B]Minute 0:33: Thanos is like "Seriously, I'm getting bored here".

Cap's blows barely manage to pull an expression from Thanos.

Then a single blow from Thanos K.O's Cap.

Actually at 0:32 he does give Thanos an uppercut which clearly has an effect.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
YouTube video

Minute 1:58: Focus on Cap's attacks with the shield and kick. We aren't talking Mjonir blows, Thanos is clearly having a greater effect by these.

It was a flying kick, which we don't see from him in IW, and sure it has an effect, (like the upper cut above had an effect), but on it's own it's hardly doing anything.

So where's the godly difference in physical strength? Because I'm not seeing it.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
Furthermore, we later see Thanos grab Cap and enragely pound him against the ground without these getting K.Oed. Being pound against the ground 》》》 a single punch to the face by a non enraged Thanos.

You mean like this @ 0:50:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xZbOn3q_9Co

So was Spider-Man also amped to Thor level strength now?

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
See I bring multiple evidence to back my words, while you guys bring me speculations.

No, you're trying really hard to see something that may or may not be there. Cap showed nothing with his fists or physical durability that Spider-Man couldn't do.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
Thanks you! Finally you agree on something! You guys are 'SUGGESTING that PERHAPS'...That isn't enough to nullify Thor 1 nor Odin's words. It's just the simple fact.

Of course the possibility exists. Unfortunately for you the On Screen Feats are seriously lacking, so this so called Physical Amp doesn't amount to much on this forum.

Odin said nothing about physical strength.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
I respect your speculation. But the truth is that Thor lost his superstrength with Odin's spell, and Odin made it PLANELY CLEAR that whosoever held Mjolnir would have THE POWER THOR HAD.

Just because Thor had to prove himself worthy to regain his strength and powers, doesn't mean anyone else worthy will gain his physical strength. So neither Odin nor Kevin Feige or the Russos or Marvel in any way have confirmed anything on the matter.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Actually you're completely wrong:

Worthy Cap is sent flying back at 2:41

YouTube video

Oh and at 0:50 Regular Cap's flying kicks have an almost identical effect on Thanos as they do later.

This argument is pretty much done. There's no substantial difference in the physical strikes of Cap on Thanos before and after becoming worthy in the same damn fight. Nor is there a difference in his durbalility displayed - capable of being flung back with a hit both before and after becoming Worthy.

Spider-Man has also endured the body slam from an enraged Thanos.

Nowhere has Cap displayed Thor level strength and nowhere is there a godly difference in Cap's physicality before and after becoming Worthy Cap.

You were simply taking different moves from different parts of the fight and seeing what you wanted to see.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Actually you're completely wrong:

Worthy Cap is sent flying back at 2:41

YouTube video

And he's actually flung considerably further than he was at 0:26.

Are you beginning to see now how ridiculous your initial assertion was? You're comparing different moves in different parts of the fight in a desperate attempt to show a godly strength boost when there is no such evidence of that.

0:55 - 1:00, Thor not only dodges Thanos sword throw (agility > anything we've seen from Cap btw, which I will bring to the Worthy Cap vs Ragnarok Thor debate), but he then goes toe to toe with Thanos in armed combat, where the result is that they disarm each other. This is a massive improvement to what we saw at the 0:26 mark.

But I've already proven you wrong on that. You CANT just show different moves from different points in a fight to prove some kind of amp, or just in general to support an agenda you have. It's absolutely ridiculous, which I've clearly shown you now.

Actually at 0:32 he does give Thanos an uppercut which clearly has an effect.

It was a flying kick, which we don't see from him in IW, and sure it has an effect, (like the upper cut above had an effect), but on it's own it's hardly doing anything.

So where's the godly difference in physical strength? Because I'm not seeing it.

You mean like this @ 0:50:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xZbOn3q_9Co

So was Spider-Man also amped to Thor level strength now?

No, you're trying really hard to see something that may or may not be there. Cap showed nothing with his fists or physical durability that Spider-Man couldn't do.

Of course the possibility exists. Unfortunately for you the On Screen Feats are seriously lacking, so this so called Physical Amp doesn't amount to much on this forum.

Odin said nothing about physical strength.

Just because Thor had to prove himself worthy to regain his strength and powers, doesn't mean anyone else worthy will gain his physical strength. So neither Odin nor Kevin Feige or the Russos or Marvel in any way have confirmed anything on the matter.

Thanks for realizing that a downward attack would never send someone flying away.

In that aspect, you still need evidence to prove that Cap can block a blow from Thanos without being sent flying away.

😂 You do like obmitting essential details, dont you? First of all Cap's leg was just impaled! Are you seriously suggesting that someone whose leg is seriously wounded would have the same stability as someone who's not? Furthermore, in that scene Thanos is evidently pissed and going all out, whilst in the beginning he is warming up. I think that's WAY evident.

Even worse, you play blindman to the fact that Cap previously endured about 7 strikes from the same enraged Thanos with AN INJURED LEG without flying away. That feat supports my case, not yours

You do realize that Cap was going all out in IW, whilst we see a much relaxed Cap in Engame? And the uppercut in IW merely bugged Thanos, whilst in Endgame Thanos was swayed and pissed.

Also, we shouldn't expect Cap to have a greater effect than Thor. I mean, Thor's strength isn't one to contest Thanos', so, Cap not overwhelming the Titan doesn't mean he wasn't boosted!

Thanks you!! Thanks for actually supporting my case. In your attempts of lowballing you actually brought sustancial support to my case.

So now you are comparing Cap with Iron Spider? 😂

I wonder how much you actually know of this characters.

Normal Cap operates at strengths of arround 100tons.
Normal Spiderman operates easily arround 1000tons.

Iron Spider's strength would significantly be boosted by the suit.

So, W.Cap performing similarly to Iron Spidey when fighting Thanos brings ULTIMATE proof that Cap was indeed boosted.

FACT: Thor lost his superstrength when he lost his powers.

EVEN A KID CAN SEE THE RELATION BETWEEN THOR'S STRENGTH AND HIS POWER

Unless you bring sustancial evidence to prove otherwise, the movie made it ample clear that Thor's powers are intertwined with his strength, and your speculation isn't proof.

So, you see D.Thor. Ultimately everything points at Cap receiving a boost. C'mon, Marvel clearly intended it that way. You are swimming against the current here pal.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
Normal Cap operates at strengths of arround 100tons.
Normal Spiderman operates easily arround 1000tons.

What the shit?

Originally posted by juggerman
What the shit?

How much do you think a Ferry weights boy? Not including the cargo.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
How much do you think a Ferry weights boy? Not including the cargo.

Boy? Well I never!

Anyway, Peter wasn't holding it together on his own. There were several webs holding the majority of the weight. But I'm more concerned with you scaling Steve Rogers into the 200,000lbs category. But I'm sure you have some explanation right?

EDIT: Also I seem to recall Peter struggling greatly to lift that concrete off of himself. No way that weighed anywhere near 2 million pounds

Originally posted by juggerman
Boy? Well I never!

Anyway, Peter wasn't holding it together on his own. There were several webs holding the majority of the weight. But I'm more concerned with you scaling Steve Rogers into the 200,000lbs category. But I'm sure you have some explanation right?

EDIT: Also I seem to recall Peter struggling greatly to lift that concrete off of himself. No way that weighed anywhere near 2 million pounds

No, in the end all the webs were tore and only him was holding the whole structure.

Cap's greatest feat was mentioned in shield where he is said to move a 60ton bulldozer.

I'm scaling it to 100ton, considering he prevented Thanos' from closing his hand in IW.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
No, in the end all the webs were tore and only him was holding the whole structure.

Cap's greatest feat was mentioned in shield where he is said to move a 60ton bulldozer.

I'm scaling it to 100ton, considering he prevented Thanos' from closing his hand in IW.

In the end he couldn't hold it so I'm not sure why you're considering that at all.

60 tons isn't 100 tons. And that was off screen and could have been wrong. I believe the Golden Rule would exclude that

Thanos closes his fist with 100 ton force? By that logic, Dr. Strange's cape is a gorram powerhouse!!! 😂

Originally posted by juggerman
In the end he couldn't hold it so I'm not sure why you're considering that at all.

60 tons isn't 100 tons. And that was off screen and could have been wrong. I believe the Golden Rule would exclude that

Thanos closes his fist with 100 ton force? By that logic, Dr. Strange's cape is a gorram powerhouse!!! 😂

The web was stretching.

Assuming Thanos is a 1000 tonner. 500 tons in each arm.

I read somewhere that gripping strength is somewhere arround 20-30% arm strength. So, I'm scaling it to 100tons.

It's a magica cloth 😂

Either way, the point is, you can't compare normal Cap's strength to Spidey's.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
The web was stretching.

Assuming Thanos is a 1000 tonner. 500 tons in each arm.

I read somewhere that gripping strength is somewhere arround 20-30% arm strength. So, I'm scaling it to 100tons.

It's a magica cloth 😂

Either way, the point is, you can't compare norma Cap's strength to Spidey's.

Peter wasn't supporting the entire weight of the boat either so again it doesn't fit your narrative

There's no reason to assume Thanos is that strong physically. Nothing he did supports that

Even if that's true, your baseline is faulty

So? There's nothing but baseless assumption that has you starting so high

I agree that Spiderman is much stronger than Steve. He has the feats to prove it. However, neither one of them have to feats to place them where you're trying to put them

Cap beat Spider-Man in a fight😂

Originally posted by juggerman
Peter wasn't supporting the entire weight of the boat either so again it doesn't fit your narrative

There's no reason to assume Thanos is that strong physically. Nothing he did supports that

Even if that's true, your baseline is faulty

So? There's nothing but baseless assumption that has you starting so high

I agree that Spiderman is much stronger than Steve. He has the feats to prove it. However, neither one of them have to feats to place them where you're trying to put them

He was.

YouTube video

Minute 4:17. His string is the only one holding the boat! Even if for a second Spidey held the structure from falling apart.

So Thanos outstrenghtening Hulk who can punch 1000 ton leviathans isn't a 1000tonner?

Originally posted by BrolyBlack
Cap beat Spider-Man in a fight😂

So did Falcon...

Originally posted by juggerman
So did Falcon...

I agree that Spiderman MASSIVELY underestimates his foes, but that doesn't make him weak.

Now, I haven't watch Far From Home, so, I'm eager to see how he will evolve.

Don't spoil me please.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
He was.

YouTube video

Minute 4:17. His string is the only one holding the boat! Even if for a second Spidey held the structure from falling apart.

So Thanos outstrenghtening Hulk who can punch 1000 ton leviathans isn't a 1000tonner?

He wasn't. The ship was slowly falling apart. Spiderman wasn't slowing the momentum.

Also I just realized something. You put Spiderman as 1000 tonner and you did the same with Thanos. See the issue there?

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
I agree that Spiderman MASSIVELY underestimates his foes, but that doesn't make him weak.

Now, I haven't watch Far From Home, so, I'm eager to see how he will evolve.

Don't spoil me please.

No I agree with you on him being stronger than Cap. I was pointing out that Cap beating him doesn't make Cap stronger

Originally posted by juggerman
He wasn't. The ship was slowly falling apart. Spiderman wasn't slowing the momentum.

Also I just realized something. You put Spiderman as 1000 tonner and you did the same with Thanos. See the issue there?

The ship was slowly falling apart because Spidey was holding it...Otherwise, it would have tore Spidey's arms appart.

Yeah, perhaps I used too much of a slower number on Thanos 👆

Regardless, what I'm trying to point at is that Cap would never be one to contend Spiderman in terms of strength like D.Thor was trying to allude.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
The ship was slowly falling apart because Spidey was holding it...Otherwise, it would have tore Spidey's arms appart.

Yeah, perhaps I used too much of a slower number on Thanos 👆

Regardless, what I'm trying to point at is that Cap would never be one to contend Spiderman in terms of strength.

It was slowly sinking. Ships don't just dunk under water all at once. The water itself provides resistance and the ships buoyancy also comes into play. Meaning Peter, in no way shape or form, was holding the entire weight of the ferry.

I'd give you 1000 for Thanos WAY before 1000 for Peter. Again the concrete in Homecoming that trapped him was nowhere near large enough to support your claim

Again I agree on the premise just not the specifics

Originally posted by juggerman
It was slowly sinking. Ships don't just dunk under water all at once. The water itself provides resistance and the ships buoyancy also comes into play. Meaning Peter, in no way shape or form, was holding the entire weight of the ferry.

I'd give you 1000 for Thanos WAY before 1000 for Peter. Again the concrete in Homecoming that trapped him was nowhere near large enough to support your claim

Again I agree on the premise just not the specifics

I never said he was holding the ship from literally sinking. He held the ship from falling apart, that's what I said, which doesn't consider things like buoyancy.

YouTube video

The boat was actually arround 2000tons. I like that youtuber, his analysis is pretty well rounded.

Either way, I don't feel calling Spidey a 1000tonner is crazy TBH. I don't know the exact number, but a 1000tonner is pretty decent.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
Thanks for realizing that a downward attack would never send someone flying away.

In that aspect, you still need evidence to prove that Cap can block a blow from Thanos without being sent flying away.

😂 You do like obmitting essential details, dont you? First of all Cap's leg was just impaled! Are you seriously suggesting that someone whose leg is seriously wounded would have the same stability as someone who's not? Furthermore, in that scene Thanos is evidently pissed and going all out, whilst in the beginning he is warming up. I think that's WAY evident.

Even worse, you play blindman to the fact that Cap previously endured about 7 strikes from the same enraged Thanos with AN INJURED LEG without flying away. [B]That feat supports my case, not yours

You do realize that Cap was going all out in IW, whilst we see a much relaxed Cap in Engame? And the uppercut in IW merely bugged Thanos, whilst in Endgame Thanos was swayed and pissed.

Also, we shouldn't expect Cap to have a greater effect than Thor. I mean, Thor's strength isn't one to contest Thanos', so, Cap not overwhelming the Titan doesn't mean he wasn't boosted!

Thanks you!! Thanks for actually supporting my case. In your attempts of lowballing you actually brought sustancial support to my case.

So now you are comparing Cap with Iron Spider? 😂

I wonder how much you actually know of this characters.

Normal Cap operates at strengths of arround 100tons.
Normal Spiderman operates easily arround 1000tons.

Iron Spider's strength would significantly be boosted by the suit.

So, W.Cap performing similarly to Iron Spidey when fighting Thanos brings ULTIMATE proof that Cap was indeed boosted.

FACT: Thor lost his superstrength when he lost his powers.

EVEN A KID CAN SEE THE RELATION BETWEEN THOR'S STRENGTH AND HIS POWER

Unless you bring sustancial evidence to prove otherwise, the movie made it ample clear that Thor's powers are intertwined with his strength, and your speculation isn't proof.

So, you see D.Thor. Ultimately everything points at Cap receiving a boost. C'mon, Marvel clearly intended it that way. You are swimming against the current here pal. [/B]

Ugh what is all this?

Where have you addressed my time stamps?

Where have you addressed Cap's flying kick before the amp having pretty much the same effect as his flying kick after?

Where did I say Cap = Spider-Man? I said Cap did not physically display anything Spider-Man isn't capable of. There's a difference. And FYI Spider-Man is no Thor. And don't make up nonsense about the Iron Spider suit augmenting his strength.

Also Spidey actually took that pounding head on and stayed within Thanos's grip, whereas Cap quickly rolled away for his life. So Spidey took more punishment.

And what's with all the speculative nonsense about Thanos hitting harder towards the end of the fight than at the beginning? And now Cap was all relaxed and not going all out in Endgame? Wth Josh?!

This entire response solidifies that you are just seeing what you want to see.

I'll address the one rebuttal I've seen:

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
First of all Cap's leg was just impaled! Are you seriously suggesting that someone whose leg is seriously wounded would have the same stability as someone who's not?

They were both horizontal strikes so I wouldn't expect much difference. It's not like his feet stick to the floor or anything. That said he did go flying substantially further the second time.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
Even worse, you play blindman to the fact that Cap previously endured about 7 strikes from the same enraged Thanos with AN INJURED LEG without flying away. [B]That feat supports my case, not yours [/B]

So you've basically just proven the injured leg was no excuse to go flying backwards the way he did.

You've lost this point Josh. There's literally no Visual evidence of Worthy Cap having Thor level strength. Stop stretching and seeing what you want to see.

You can believe it if you want, but with Zero visual evidence there's nothing useable on these boards.