Worthy Cap vs. Kurse

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Ugh what is all this?

Where have you addressed my time stamps?

Where have you addressed Cap's flying kick before the amp having pretty much the same effect as his flying kick after?

Where did I say Cap = Spider-Man? I said Cap did not physically display anything Spider-Man isn't capable of. There's a difference. And FYI Spider-Man is no Thor. And don't make up nonsense about the Iron Spider suit augmenting his strength.

Also Spidey actually took that pounding head on and stayed within Thanos's grip, whereas Cap quickly rolled away for his life. So Spidey took more punishment.

And what's with all the speculative nonsense about Thanos hitting harder towards the end of the fight than at the beginning? And now Cap was all relaxed and not going all out in Endgame? Wth Josh?!

This entire response solidifies that you are just seeing what you want to see.

I'll address the one rebuttal I've seen:

They were both horizontal strikes so I wouldn't expect much difference. It's not like his feet stick to the floor or anything. That said he did go flying substantially further the second time.

So you've basically just proven the injured leg was no excuse to go flying backwards the way he did.

You've lost this point Josh. There's literally no Visual evidence of Worthy Cap having Thor level strength. Stop stretching and seeing what you want to see.

You can believe it if you want, but with Zero visual evidence there's nothing useable on these boards.

I addressed all your points. I can't segment your quote, sorry, I don't have that time.

My post is cronological with your response, except for the first two paragraphs.

Which flying kick BTW?

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
I addressed all your points

Clearly not:

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
Which flying kick BTW?

Anyway you have to specifically refer to videos and timestamps. Since you are claiming the videos show Cap having Thor level strength.

Otherwise ill just assume youd prefer to speculate and use the version of Worthy Cap you have in your own mind.

Kurse wins

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
Which flying kick BTW?

Realised it was in my next post which you probably missed:

Originally posted by Darth Thor

YouTube video

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Oh and at 0:50 Regular Cap's flying kicks have an almost identical effect on Thanos as they do later.

This argument is pretty much done. There's no substantial difference in the physical strikes of Cap on Thanos before and after becoming worthy in the same damn fight. Nor is there a difference in his durbalility displayed - capable of being flung back with a hit both before and after becoming Worthy.

Spider-Man has also endured the body slam from an enraged Thanos.

Nowhere has Cap displayed Thor level strength and nowhere is there a godly difference in Cap's physicality before and after becoming Worthy Cap.

You were simply taking different moves from different parts of the fight and seeing what you wanted to see.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Realised it was in my next post which you probably missed:

Okay, first of all they don't.

You can clearly hear Thanos moaning in the second kick whereas Thanos isn't even swayed in the first one.

Also, inconsistencies are common in films, that's why you always take that which has morr backup. In this case, I have brought more evidence to support my case.

Furthermore, saying that Cap is Thor superstrong doesn't mean his punches and kicks would have a tremendous impact on Thanos, as Thor himself wasn't.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Ugh what is all this?

Where have you addressed my time stamps?

Where have you addressed Cap's flying kick before the amp having pretty much the same effect as his flying kick after?

Where did I say Cap = Spider-Man? I said Cap did not physically display anything Spider-Man isn't capable of. There's a difference. And FYI Spider-Man is no Thor. And don't make up nonsense about the Iron Spider suit augmenting his strength.

Also Spidey actually took that pounding head on and stayed within Thanos's grip, whereas Cap quickly rolled away for his life. So Spidey took more punishment.

And what's with all the speculative nonsense about Thanos hitting harder towards the end of the fight than at the beginning? And now Cap was all relaxed and not going all out in Endgame? Wth Josh?!

This entire response solidifies that you are just seeing what you want to see.

I'll address the one rebuttal I've seen:

They were both horizontal strikes so I wouldn't expect much difference. It's not like his feet stick to the floor or anything. That said he did go flying substantially further the second time.

So you've basically just proven the injured leg was no excuse to go flying backwards the way he did.

You've lost this point Josh. There's literally no Visual evidence of Worthy Cap having Thor level strength. Stop stretching and seeing what you want to see.

You can believe it if you want, but with Zero visual evidence there's nothing useable on these boards.

I addressed the timestamps. The strenght boost is supported by most feats, notice that I'm not denying that there might be some instances where feats might look similar.

Again, most feats support my case:

Odin's words, Thor 1, W.Cap not bring K'Oed like in IW by Thanos' attacks, W.Thor not flying away like normal Cap by several of Thanos' hits despite his leg being injured, W.Cap's attacks having overall a 'better' effect than his predecessor.

You made a direct comparison between Cap and Spiderman, as if their strength is similar, where in reality Normal Spiderman held a 2000ton ferry whilst Cap struggled with a Helicopter!

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Cap showed nothing with his fists or physical durability that Spider-Man couldn't do.

You have basically conceded this debate. You yourself have admitted that Cap's strenght is comparable to someone who previously was way stronger than this.

OMG! MORE LOWBALLING! Iron Spider is evidently more powerful than normal Spidey's suit.

Thanos got pissed with W.Cap. You don't need to be an expert to see his facial expressions! I suggest you pay more attention to the clips.

Yet you KEEP OMITTING the fact that W.Cap endured 7 enraged hits with an injured leg whereas Normal Cap barely endured a random one!

That feat supports my case, not yours, again.

You yourself, unconciously just proved that there is. Based on feats/movie clips YOU made a direct comparison between W.Cap and Spiderman in terms of strenght! 😂

Due to that, and the ton of other feats I've brought to support my case. Evidence suggest Cap was boosted.

You are swimming against the current here my friend

Guys, Cap shot Thanos with friggin' LIGHTNING. I'm of the opinion that Cap got Thor's powers. I think it was pretty clear following the Thor/Cap/Mjolnir character arc from Thor 1 to Endgame:
- Anthony Hopkins saying his "if he be worthy, shall possess the power of Thor". Thor loses all his powers in Thor 1 and regains them when he becomes worthy again.
- Cap budging Mjolnir in AoU.
- The difference between Thanos being amused by Cap's resilience against him in Infinity War and Cap going 1-on-1 against Thanos in Endgame once he is worthy.

Not to mention the thing that actually bugs me a bit about Thor's character arc from Ragnarok into Infinity War and Endgame: the Russos basically threw out "the power is within me, not a hammer" Thor aspect that was the main theme of Ragnarok. Immediately in IW, he needs Stormbreaker. In Endgame, wants Mjolnir back. In the final fight, dude gets tossed like a ragdoll and only puts up any semblance of fight when he has one or two hammers.

Anyway, I lean towards Cap for this fight. If Kurse grabs him, then ya he kills him. Otherwise, Cap doesn't brawl like Thor and dances around Kurse until he puts him down with multiple shield hits, hammer hits, and an array of actual lightning strikes interspersed in his fighting style.

The only time Caps hit had any effect on Thanos was with the hammer.

Originally posted by John Murdoch
Guys, Cap shot Thanos with friggin' LIGHTNING. I'm of the opinion that Cap got Thor's powers. I think it was pretty clear following the Thor/Cap/Mjolnir character arc from Thor 1 to Endgame:
- Anthony Hopkins saying his "if he be worthy, shall possess the power of Thor". Thor loses all his powers in Thor 1 and regains them when he becomes worthy again.
- Cap budging Mjolnir in AoU.
- The difference between Thanos being amused by Cap's resilience against him in Infinity War and Cap going 1-on-1 against Thanos in Endgame once he is worthy.

Not to mention the thing that actually bugs me a bit about Thor's character arc from Ragnarok into Infinity War and Endgame: the Russos basically threw out "the power is within me, not a hammer" Thor aspect that was the main theme of Ragnarok. Immediately in IW, he needs Stormbreaker. In Endgame, wants Mjolnir back. In the final fight, dude gets tossed like a ragdoll and only puts up any semblance of fight when he has one or two hammers.

Anyway, I lean towards Cap for this fight. If Kurse grabs him, then ya he kills him. Otherwise, Cap doesn't brawl like Thor and dances around Kurse until he puts him down with multiple shield hits, hammer hits, and an array of actual lightning strikes interspersed in his fighting style.

I don't think anyone is questioning whether or not Cap got Thor's powers. The contention is whether this means he only received Thor's lightning powers or if he inherited Thor's Asgardian strength and durability as well.

I also agree that the Russo's pretty much negated all of Thor's character arc. They made him dependent on a weapon again, they made him decline leadership of the Asgardians again, they even gave him back his eye.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
Okay, first of all they don't.

You can clearly hear Thanos moaning in the second kick whereas Thanos isn't even swayed in the first one.

Also, inconsistencies are common in films, that's why you always take that which has morr backup. In this case, I have brought more evidence to support my case.

Furthermore, saying that Cap is Thor superstrong doesn't mean his punches and kicks would have a tremendous impact on Thanos, as Thor himself wasn't.

I addressed the timestamps. The strenght boost is supported by most feats, notice that I'm not denying that there might be some instances where feats might look similar.

[B]Again, most feats support my case:

Odin's words, Thor 1, W.Cap not bring K'Oed like in IW by Thanos' attacks, W.Thor not flying away like normal Cap by several of Thanos' hits despite his leg being injured, W.Cap's attacks having overall a 'better' effect than his predecessor.

You made a direct comparison between Cap and Spiderman, as if their strength is similar, where in reality Normal Spiderman held a 2000ton ferry whilst Cap struggled with a Helicopter!

You have basically conceded this debate. You yourself have admitted that Cap's strenght is comparable to someone who previously was way stronger than this.

OMG! MORE LOWBALLING! Iron Spider is evidently more powerful than normal Spidey's suit.

Thanos got pissed with W.Cap. You don't need to be an expert to see his facial expressions! I suggest you pay more attention to the clips.

Yet you KEEP OMITTING the fact that W.Cap endured 7 enraged hits with an injured leg whereas Normal Cap barely endured a random one!

That feat supports my case, not yours, again.

You yourself, unconciously just proved that there is. Based on feats/movie clips YOU made a direct comparison between W.Cap and Spiderman in terms of strenght! 😂

Due to that, and the ton of other feats I've brought to support my case. Evidence suggest Cap was boosted.

You are swimming against the current here my friend [/B]

Oh jeez more drivel and no time stamps and pretty much ignoring all the counters ive already made. Will address tomorrow, but I dont appreciate being taken around in circles like this.

And stop saying I said Cap and Spidey were equal in strength. It makes you sound desperate when you resort to twisting my words.

Originally posted by John Murdoch
Guys, Cap shot Thanos with friggin' LIGHTNING. I'm of the opinion that Cap got Thor's powers. I think it was pretty clear following the Thor/Cap/Mjolnir character arc from Thor 1 to Endgame:
- Anthony Hopkins saying his "if he be worthy, shall possess the power of Thor". Thor loses all his powers in Thor 1 and regains them when he becomes worthy again.
- Cap budging Mjolnir in AoU.
- The difference between Thanos being amused by Cap's resilience against him in Infinity War and Cap going 1-on-1 against Thanos in Endgame once he is worthy.

Not to mention the thing that actually bugs me a bit about Thor's character arc from Ragnarok into Infinity War and Endgame: the Russos basically threw out "the power is within me, not a hammer" Thor aspect that was the main theme of Ragnarok. Immediately in IW, he needs Stormbreaker. In Endgame, wants Mjolnir back. In the final fight, dude gets tossed like a ragdoll and only puts up any semblance of fight when he has one or two hammers.

Anyway, I lean towards Cap for this fight. If Kurse grabs him, then ya he kills him. Otherwise, Cap doesn't brawl like Thor and dances around Kurse until he puts him down with multiple shield hits, hammer hits, and an array of actual lightning strikes interspersed in his fighting style.

👆

Oh how I love objectiveness.

Originally posted by FrothByte
I don't think anyone is questioning whether or not Cap got Thor's powers. The contention is whether this means he only received Thor's lightning powers or if he inherited Thor's Asgardian strength and durability as well.

I also agree that the Russo's pretty much negated all of Thor's character arc. They made him dependent on a weapon again, they made him decline leadership of the Asgardians again, they even gave him back his eye.

Your lowballing is stinking this whole thread.

You have no solid argument to suggest that Thor's strenght is independent of it's power.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Oh jeez more drivel and no time stamps and pretty much ignoring all the counters ive already made. Will address tomorrow, but I dont appreciate being taken around in circles like this.

And stop saying I said Cap and Spidey were equal in strength. It makes you sound desperate when you resort to twisting my words.

Boy, I've obliterated your arguments.

You DIRECTLY compared Spiderman's strenght with Cap. It's not my fault that you support my case in a desperate attempt to disprove the obvious.

Circles? I'm the one going in circles with you closing your eyes at the obvious.

Honestly, I'm feeling like BZing this.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
Okay, first of all they don't.

You can clearly hear Thanos moaning in the second kick whereas Thanos isn't even swayed in the first one.

Yes they do.

You're not looking at it carefully. Look again.

Kick starts at 0:49. At the last bit of the 0:50 mark, you clearly see his face expression, which was clearly an expression of being hurt.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
Also, inconsistencies are common in films, that's why you always take that which has morr backup. In this case, I have brought more evidence to support my case.

LMAO You're whole visual evidence was based on slightly different showings between different fights and different moves in the same fight. And now you're telling me that INCONSISTENCIES are common in all films?!

Josh you've just made your whole argument invalid.

If films are film choreographies are full of inconsistencies, then surely we have to compare Strength Feats! And i've asked you to provide a strength feat of Worthy Cap's to match Ragnarok Thor's in the other thread and you have failed to provide one.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
Furthermore, saying that Cap is Thor superstrong doesn't mean his punches and kicks would have a tremendous impact on Thanos, as Thor himself wasn't.

You're the one claiming Worthy Cap had Thors physical stats. It's for you to provide the visual evidence of that, which you have failed to do.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
I addressed the timestamps. The strenght boost is supported by most feats, notice that I'm not denying that there might be some instances where feats might look similar.

I've have addressed all of your timestamps, and provided counter evidence via my own time stamps. You are just denying those counters, because you want to ignore them.

Your so called visual evidence has been thoroughly debunked at this point. You groaning over and over doesn't change that.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
[B]Again, most feats support my case:

Let's see:

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
[B]Again, most feats support my case:

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
W.Cap's attacks having overall a 'better' effect than his predecessor. [/B]

Nope. The effects of flying kick to the head at 0:50 and at his flying body shot knee at 1:57 are pretty much the same. If anything I'd argue he looks more nuisanced by the kick at 0:50, but it's not enough of a difference for me to bother with that argument.

So not only have i debunked this idea that Worthy Cap's physical strikes and durability were shown at godly levels in comparison to standard Cap, but you yourself have already Conceded that these fights are Inconsistent so so any minor differenced should be ignored anyway.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
You made a direct comparison between Cap and Spiderman, as if their strength is similar, where in reality Normal Spiderman held a 2000ton ferry whilst Cap struggled with a Helicopter!

The fact that you continue to misrepresent what I stated (without even quoting my words), even after I've asked you to stop, says to me this debate has gone far enough because you're not capable of taking the debate any further, so instead have to go back and misrepresent me.

But on the note of Spider-Man:

Spider-Man never carried a Ferry. He actually struggled to carry the platform Cap dropped on him on Civil War.

Tell me would Thor struggle to carry that platform? Stop trolling and answer the question please, or we are done here.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
You have basically conceded this debate. You yourself have admitted that Cap's strenght is comparable to someone who previously was way stronger than this.

OMG! MORE LOWBALLING! Iron Spider is evidently more powerful than normal Spidey's suit.

Thanos got pissed with W.Cap. You don't need to be an expert to see his facial expressions! I suggest you pay more attention to the clips.

Yet you KEEP OMITTING the fact that W.Cap endured 7 enraged hits with an injured leg whereas Normal Cap barely endured a random one!

That feat supports my case, not yours, again.

[B]You yourself, unconciously just proved that there is. Based on feats/movie clips YOU made a direct comparison between W.Cap and Spiderman in terms of strenght! 😂

Due to that, and the ton of other feats I've brought to support my case. Evidence suggest Cap was boosted.

You are swimming against the current here my friend [/B]

Please for the Love of God stop with first class trolling now.

I've already explained my position to you on that example. You're The One whose conceded these fights are full of Inconsistencies anyway so Unusable!

If you actually quoted me you would have seen there was a question attached which you desperately avoided. Here's my initial quote which you have grossly misrepresented and continued trolling around since:

Originally posted by Darth Thor
You mean like this @ 0:50:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xZbOn3q_9Co

So was Spider-Man also amped to Thor level strength now?

Now Answer me this and stop avoiding the point being brought up:

Is Spider-Mans strength closer to Captain America's or closer to Thor's.

P.s. And no I've not omitted anything. Those were vertical strikes. I and others have already pointed out to you regular Cap has EASILY stopped an Overhead strike from Thor whacking Mjolnir at him in Avengers 1. Nice try though to try and twist things into pretending I'm the one whose avoiding arguments made here.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
Boy, I've obliterated your arguments.

You DIRECTLY compared Spiderman's strenght with Cap. It's not my fault that you support my case in a desperate attempt to disprove the obvious.

Circles? I'm the one going in circles with you closing your eyes at the obvious.

Honestly, I'm feeling like BZing this.

You've not even directly addressed my time stamps, you keep misrepresenting my argument and you won't directly answer questions put to you, so I don't know what you think you've obliterated.

Oh please accept a BZ on this.

I can gladly respond go once again and rebuke everything you said, but we will only keep going in circles.

I will accept a BZ. But not now. I would wait 'till the full version is on blue ray. Besides, I don't have the time to commit to a BZ.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
I can gladly respond go once again and rebuke everything you said, but we will only keep going in circles.

I will accept a BZ. But not now. I would wait 'till the full version is on blue ray. Besides, I don't have the time to commit to a BZ.

None of us have time Josh. I'm posting from work. Doesn't matter if you take a couple of days to reply to me, as i can be the same.

Continuously telling you that if it's a long response I'll likely address it the next day.

But let's do this. And yes it's sensible to wait for proper vids, but that's only a couple of weeks away.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
None of us have time Josh. I'm posting for work. Doesn't matter if you take a couple of days to reply to me, as i can be the same.

Continuously telling you that if it's a long response I'll likely address it the next day.

But let's do this. And yes it's sensible to wait for proper vids, but that's only a couple of weeks away.

A couple of weeks is okay.

Yeah, but believe me, a BZ response requires waay more time and analysis than a normal thread's response....If you want proper responses well.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
A couple of weeks is okay.

Yeah, but believe me, a BZ response requires waay more time and analysis than a normal thread's response....If you want proper responses well.

Will agree a time when we are both a bit more free, and even then we wont be too strict on the time for responses. Judge can read and catch up at the end. We just need to agree how many posts we will both be making so that we dont just keep going around in circles.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Will agree a time when we are both a bit more free, and even then we wont be too strict on the time for responses. Judge can read and catch up at the end. We just need to agree how many posts we will both be making so that we dont just keep going around in circles.

Ofcourse.