Superman as of Man of Steel was also considerably stronger than Faora so I don't find that line of reasoning all that convincing. Even while fending off Nam-ek he was able to overpower her.
And the thing is he very well might have grown stronger, considering the huge gains he went through in Man of Steel alone. It's not out of the question, which is what makes powerscaling other characters off of Superman to see how they would fare against each other tricky.
Originally posted by NemeBro
Superman as of Man of Steel was also considerably stronger than Faora so I don't find that line of reasoning all that convincing. Even while fending off Nam-ek he was able to overpower her.And the thing is he very well might have grown stronger, considering the huge gains he went through in Man of Steel alone. It's not out of the question, which is what makes powerscaling other characters off of Superman to see how they would fare against each other tricky.
I rewatched their fight. Superman never actually overpowers Faora. He bullrushes her with his flight once, tripped her once and then he also grabs her by the arm and pulls her down to smash her on the ground. That's it.
In comparison, Faora blocks several punches from Superman with ease, knocks him down multiple times with single punches, picks him up and throws him around, and even catches him in the throat single-handed as he charges towards her.
Faora was clearly way more impressive in their fight than Superman was. And while Superman got some good licks in there, they definitely weren't enough to say that he was overpowering her.
Originally posted by FrothByte😂
I rewatched their fight. Superman never actually overpowers Faora.
He literally overpowers her with one arm and puts her to the ground, and then drags her through the air with her helpless to stop him, all while fending off Nam-Ek (who is much stronger than Faora) and starting off this exchange on his back, while she is trying to pin him.
She's so much weaker than him that, even with leverage and while he's not using his flight, she can't stop him from grabbing her arm and jerking her to his side.
You're honestly straight up delusional if you don't think Superman looked physically stronger than Faora.
Originally posted by NemeBro
😂He literally overpowers her with one arm and puts her to the ground, and then drags her through the air with her helpless to stop him, all while fending off Nam-Ek (who is much stronger than Faora) and starting off this exchange on his back, while she is trying to pin him.
She's so much weaker than him that, even with leverage and while he's not using his flight, she can't stop him from grabbing her arm and jerking her to his side.
You're honestly straight up delusional if you don't think Superman looked physically stronger than Faora.
If you consider Superman grabbing Faora by the arm and pulling her down (while she already had forward momentum) as "overpowering him", why don't you consider Faora catching and lifting Superman by the throat singlehandedly as "overpowering him"? You do know that pulling someone down by pulling on their arm (especially when they're already kneeling) is by far easier than lifting someone off the ground with a single hand right?
Seems to me you're applying a double standard here.
Originally posted by NemeBro
For real, is there anyone else here who can look at that and think Faora isn't being out-muscled by someone physically stronger than she is?
If you knew anything about grappling, you'd know that that move is more a result of leverage, proper timing and technique instead of brute strength.
Originally posted by FrothByteNo, that's a false equivalency.
If you consider Superman grabbing Faora by the arm and pulling her down (as she was already seemingly trying to drive a punch forward anyway) as "overpowering him", why don't you consider Faora catching and lifting Superman by the throat singlehandedly as "overpowering him"? You do know that pulling someone down by pulling on their arm (especially when they're already kneeling) is by far easier than lifting someone off the ground with a single hand right?Seems to me you're applying a double standard here. [/B]
It is harder to lift someone off the ground with one hand is harder for people IRL because it is literally physically impossible to perform a neck lift on someone like that unless it's like Braun Strowman performing it to Peter Dinklage. It's because human beings are not strong enough to lift a two hundred pound weight by grabbing something as thick and fleshy as a man's neck up in the air with a single hand.
For Kryptonians, who are strong enough to toss cars over the horizon, these human limitations are not an issue. She was merely countering him head-on with her feet firmly planted. Superman tossed her aside with nothing but arm strength, and then proceeded to literally use her body as a weapon and slap Nam-Ek away, before dragging her through the air and necessitating Nam-Ek bailing her out again. And once again, during this exchange Superman is on his back and fending off another Kryptonian. Do you know how leverage works?
Furthermore, per Faora's own words, Superman at this point is "unsure of (him)self", he is holding back, not going at her with everything he has due to his morality.
Which is pretty obvious if you actually watch the fight, since literally seconds after she stops him mid-fight, he rushes her again, but this time easily overpowers her and is tossing her around like a rag doll, before Nam-Ek bails her out and double teams him with her.
Shit, during this same scene, Superman is literally able to block a ground and pound punch from Nam-Ek with one arm while on his back and while simultaneously holding Faora back with his other hand and being pinned down by both of them. To reiterate, Superman, with one arm, can stop Nam-Ek's descending fist with nothing but an outstretched arm, while being pinned by both Nam-Ek and Faora.
And you what? Think that Faora is as strong as he is? Nam-Ek isn't even as strong as he is.
Originally posted by FrothByteAh so now your argument is that Superman used his superior skill to outmaneuver Faora? 😂
If you knew anything about grappling, you'd know that that move is more a result of leverage, proper timing and technique instead of brute strength.
Buddy, you don't know anything about grappling if you think that Superman did anything there but overpower her, and you definitely don't if you think that he had superior leverage from the bottom position in a grapple. 👇
Yeah, I don't see how anyone could come away from that movie thinking that Faora actually overpowered Clark at anytime lol. She was just a more skilled fighter than him. She had a soldier's training and Clark never had any formal hand-to-hand training on his farm or anywhere else.
It's true that she was owning him at first but he eventually adapted and ended-up doing pretty well. There's no way Faora is stronger than Superman as he's been soaking up yellow sunlight a Hell of a lot longer than Faora has.
Faora is pretty bad ass and I still think she'd whip WW handily but she is not more powerful than Clark.
Originally posted by NemeBro
No, that's a false equivalency.It is harder to lift someone off the ground with one hand is harder for people IRL because it is literally physically impossible to perform a neck lift on someone like that unless it's like Braun Strowman performing it to Peter Dinklage. It's because human beings are not strong enough to lift a two hundred pound weight by grabbing something as thick and fleshy as a man's neck up in the air with a single hand.
For Kryptonians, who are strong enough to toss cars over the horizon, these human limitations are not an issue. She was merely countering him head-on with her feet firmly planted. Superman tossed her aside with nothing but arm strength, and then proceeded to literally use her body as a weapon and slap Nam-Ek away, before dragging her through the air and necessitating Nam-Ek bailing her out again. And once again, during this exchange Superman is on his back and fending off another Kryptonian. Do you know how leverage works?
Furthermore, per Faora's own words, Superman at this point is "unsure of (him)self", he is holding back, not going at her with everything he has due to his morality.
Which is pretty obvious if you actually watch the fight, since literally seconds after she stops him mid-fight, he rushes her again, but this time easily overpowers her and is tossing her around like a rag doll, before Nam-Ek bails her out and double teams him with her.
Shit, during this same scene, Superman is literally able to block a ground and pound punch from Nam-Ek with one arm while on his back and while simultaneously holding Faora back with his other hand and being pinned down by both of them. To reiterate, Superman, with one arm, can stop Nam-Ek's descending fist with nothing but an outstretched arm, while being pinned by both Nam-Ek and Faora.
And you what? Think that Faora is as strong as he is? Nam-Ek isn't even as strong as he is.
Your post might have sense IF it wasn't for the fact that Superman could fly. Faora had to counter Superman's trajectory then lift him in a chokehold where he couldn't fly away from.
Also, Faora wasn't actively trying to pull away from Superman's arm pull. She was in the process of driving her arm towards him and so already had forward momentum. That's why this is not a pure strength feat... which you'd know if you had any grappling knowledge. And yes, there are some things where you have leverage advantages from the bottom. Why do you think people still win despite being in the bottom?
Lastly, Loki has a feat where he grabs Thor by the nape of the next then smashes Thor's head against some railings. Does that mean he's stronger than Thor? No. You don't become stronger than somebody just because you execute a good grappling technique.
In any case, I never claimed that Faora was stronger than Superman. I just don't think that he is that much stronger than she was. If he was then she never should have been able to smash him around like she did.
Originally posted by eThneoLgrRnae
Yeah, I don't see how anyone could come away from that movie thinking that Faora actually overpowered Clark at anytime lol. She was just a more skilled fighter than him. She had a soldier's training and Clark never had any formal hand-to-hand training on his farm or anywhere else.It's true that she was owning him at first but he eventually adapted and ended-up doing pretty well. There's no way Faora is stronger than Superman as he's been soaking up yellow sunlight a Hell of a lot longer than Faora has.
Faora is pretty bad ass and I still think she'd whip WW handily but she is not more powerful than Clark.
I never claimed she was stronger or that she overpowered him. I was merely pointing out that Superman didn't do anything where we could claim he truly overpowered her.
Originally posted by Silent Master
You claimed she was portrayed as having GL Superman level speed, prove it.
LOL you continue to change the words of statements. I stated that she was portrayed to be as fast as Superman in general.
You were changing the goalposts and superimposing your argument on me.
Kurse being stronger than Thor will always be true in all future movies unless Thor obtain an amp.
Originally posted by h1a8
LOL you continue to change the words of statements. I stated that she was portrayed to be as fast as Superman in general.
You were changing the goalposts and superimposing your argument on me.Kurse being stronger than Thor will always be true in all future movies unless Thor obtain an amp.
You're a liar, at no point in your original statement do you say "in general".
Originally posted by Silent Master
You're a liar, at no point in your original statement do you say "in general".
So you have bad reading comprehension. Clearly my argument is referring to direct comparison of characters. I stated multiple times if someone is stronger than someone then that is always the case in any future movie (regardless of feats) unless the weaker gets an amp.
Thanos is ALWAYS stronger than Hulk no matter what Hulks feats are, unless Hulk gets an amp inthe future.
Mine if you believe that Superman got an amp that makes him a lot faster then just say so.