Batroc is the better fighter but he can't put Bane down, and Bane can fairly easily knock Batroc out. Bane is obviously not nearly Cap's level in brute force (or in any category really), but forcing knocking Cap off balance with a surprise assault before Cap gets serious and easily takes him down (nonlethally by choice, because someone who can punch Ultron through concrete pillars could kill a normal human) doesn't give Batroc the win here IMO.
Although I concede that Bartroc is physically stronger than Bane, don't forget that Bane was defeated by a much slower, physically weaker and older oponent.
Bane's mask is an issue, an issue Bartroc will soon realize to exploit.
Considering that Bartroc is agile and fast enough, unless Bane goes for a quick end, the long term would be Bartroc's.
Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
Batroc knocking Steve off his feet isn't a pure strength showing though. He did it by blind-siding him and then pressuring him with a rapid series of kicks, not allowing him to regain his balance. Once Steve did though, the fight became completely one-sided.
It wasn't just the first kick that knocked him down though. Cap was able to block the 2nd kick with his shield and it still knocked him down. Granted, he wasn't fully prepared and braced for the blow but when you consider Cap's stats + his shield abilities then that's still no mean feat for Batroc.
Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
Batroc knocking Steve off his feet isn't a pure strength showing though. He did it by blind-siding him and then pressuring him with a rapid series of kicks, not allowing him to regain his balance. Once Steve did though, the fight became completely one-sided.
Well, consider that Bane isn't nearly to Cap's strength. Don't see him having better luck.
Originally posted by FrothByte
It wasn't just the first kick that knocked him down though. Cap was able to block the 2nd kick with his shield and it still knocked him down. Granted, he wasn't fully prepared and braced for the blow but when you consider Cap's stats + his shield abilities then that's still no mean feat for Batroc.
Never said it was just the first kick. But he kept attacking Steve over and over, knocking him again and again before he could regain his balance. It's extremely hard to bring your strength properly to bear if you don't have a moment to get stable footing underneath you. Steve managed to lift his shield, but his feet weren't particularly planted. Once that actually happened, he easily fended off all of Batroc's attacks, including his kicks, and beat his ass.
Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
Well, consider that Bane isn't nearly to Cap's strength. Don't see him having better luck.
I wasn't arguing either/or. Just pointing out that there is a huge difference between knocking a surprised opponent off their feet and outright lifting someone above your head.
Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
Never said it was just the first kick. But he kept attacking Steve over and over, knocking him again and again before he could regain his balance. It's extremely hard to bring your strength properly to bear if you don't have a moment to get stable footing underneath you. Steve managed to lift his shield, but his feet weren't particularly planted. Once that actually happened, he easily fended off all of Batroc's attacks, including his kicks, and beat his ass.
That's because Steve is actually superhuman and is obviously above Batroc's class. But it's not like Steve didn't completely have his feet under him. He was able to put his feet under him, just didn't have time to fully brace himself. Doesn't mean that he was completely off balance.
All I'm saying is, I don't see Bane knocking down Cap on his ass like that repeatedly, even if we allowed him to get a surprise attack in.
Originally posted by FrothByte
That's because Steve is actually superhuman and is obviously above Batroc's class. But it's not like Steve didn't completely have his feet under him. He was able to put his feet under him, just didn't have time to fully brace himself. Doesn't mean that he was completely off balance.All I'm saying is, I don't see Bane knocking down Cap on his ass like that repeatedly, even if we allowed him to get a surprise attack in.
Except I posted an example of what Steve can do when he blocks properly. If he is strong enough to stop a blow from Winter Soldier's robo-arm, then he clearly couldn't have been able to put much strength behind the block if Batroc still knocked him back. Having your feet underneath you =/= actually being planted and braced. Your actual foot and leg positioning plays a huge role, and you know this.
And I could also claim that I don't see Batroc casually lifting and carrying a fully-armoured Batman (which is likely well over 200lbs in total) with one hand, by the neck, like Bane did.
You could definitely make an argument for Batroc being faster, more skilled and more agile than Bane. But strength? I am not even remotely convinced.
Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
Except I posted an example of what Steve can do when he blocks properly. If he is strong enough to stop a blow from Winter Soldier's robo-arm, then he clearly couldn't have been able to put much strength behind the block if Batroc still knocked him back. Having your feet underneath you =/= actually being planted and braced. Your actual foot and leg positioning plays a huge role, and you know this.And I could also claim that I don't see Batroc casually lifting and carrying a fully-armoured Batman (which is likely well over 200lbs in total) with one hand, by the neck, like Bane did.
You could definitely make an argument for Batroc being faster, more skilled and more agile than Bane. But strength? I am not even remotely convinced.
Yeah, and if you look at that pic you posted, you can clearly see that WS's punch was at a downward angle and that Steve was braced under his shield... which is a way stronger position to brace in than the lateral hit that Batroc delivered.
I mean, what's the strongest hit that Cap has blocked with his shield parallel to the ground?
In any case, I never claimed Batroc was stronger than Bane. I just posted their strength feats to show that it was a toss up.
Originally posted by FrothByte
Yeah, and if you look at that pic you posted, you can clearly see that WS's punch was at a downward angle and that Steve was braced under his shield... which is a way stronger position to brace in than the lateral hit that Batroc delivered.I mean, what's the strongest hit that Cap has blocked with his shield parallel to the ground?
In any case, I never claimed Batroc was stronger than Bane. I just posted their strength feats to show that it was a toss up.
Except Steve was standing relatively straight, on the hood and windshield of a car, not the ground, which detracts from that. But he actually had his one foot braced in front of the other, knees slightly bent, so that he could properly brace and push back, which made a difference. Then there is also stuff like this, which didn't even make him budge:
And I disagree about it being a toss-up. One guy has a feat which can at least partially be attributed to surprise/his opponent being off balance. The other guy can outright lift and carry armored, fully-grown men by the neck with one hand.