Cheetah vs Thor

Started by darthgoober9 pages

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
What does him being a god have to do with anything?

Moreover, that assumes the street levellers can't match his high end stuff.

Edit: plus, that then becomes circular.

Thor is fast because he deals with speedster X. Wolverine is fast because he deals with Thor (who specifically comments on his speed). Mr X is fast because he deals with Wolverine. Quicksilver is fast because he deals with Mr X. Thor is fast because he deals with Quicksilver.

Etc.


Logic and common sense. Supernatural beings don't have the same "baseline" as humans when it comes to judging their stuff. Batman and Captain America are both humans who frequently venture into the superhuman feats. We accept alot of it due to the sheer volume, but we also ignore a lot of their stuff because we recognize that it flies totally in the face of of logic even from an "in universe" perspective. But if we're talking about a deity, it makes sense to view their higher end stuff with less skepticism. After all, if we see someone who's supposed to be human outrun a bullet we tend to think "Holy shit that's impressive" but if we see a deity do it we're just like "Makes sense he's a God".

I didn't assume anything about anyone else's feats, I asked specifically in reference to people who can't match his high end feats.

Wait so to keep it from being circular, you're going to say that for some reason Thor specifically shouldn't get judged by the same standards as other characters? I mean if him easily tagging people with super speed means nothing, then he himself getting tagged and such should be meaningless as well regardless of it's frequency.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Logic and common sense. Supernatural beings don't have the same "baseline" as humans when it comes to judging their stuff. Batman and Captain America are both humans who frequently venture into the superhuman feats. We accept alot of it due to the sheer volume, but we also ignore a lot of their stuff because we recognize that it flies totally in the face of of logic even from an "in universe" perspective. But if we're talking about a deity, it makes sense to view their higher end stuff with less skepticism. After all, if we see someone who's supposed to be human outrun a bullet we tend t think "Holy shit that's crazy" but if we see a deity do it we're just like "Makes sense he's a God".

I didn't assume anything about anyone else's feats, I asked specifically in reference to the one's who can't match his high end feats.

Wait so to keep it from being circular, you're going to say that for some reason Thor specifically shouldn't get judged by the same standards as other characters? I mean if him easily tagging people with super speed means nothing, then he himself getting tagged and such should be meaningless as well.

Wait.

First para: Gods are different. Judge them differently.
Third para: Judge all characters equally.

OK...but putting that aside:

Yeah, if the ones who CAN'T match his high end feats tag him, sure, it COULD be PIS, assuming no one was holding back (Surfer can hold back etc).

That is where we asked for a small proportion of his feats, to see what they're like. Having been around for nearly 60 years, with thousands of showings, one would assume he'd have the showings, right? And yeah, handbooks (though not generally admissible) can also be supporting, if needed.

How would YOU (you always nitpick with very little to offer) quantify if a character has superspeed, and if so, the degree to which they do?

Originally posted by darthgoober
Logic and common sense. Supernatural beings don't have the same "baseline" as humans when it comes to judging their stuff. Batman and Captain America are both humans who frequently venture into the superhuman feats. We accept alot of it due to the sheer volume, but we also ignore a lot of their stuff because we recognize that it flies totally in the face of of logic even from an "in universe" perspective. But if we're talking about a deity, it makes sense to view their higher end stuff with less skepticism. After all, if we see someone who's supposed to be human outrun a bullet we tend to think "Holy shit that's impressive" but if we see a deity do it we're just like "Makes sense he's a God".

I didn't assume anything about anyone else's feats, I asked specifically in reference to people who can't match his high end feats.

Wait so to keep it from being circular, you're going to say that for some reason Thor specifically shouldn't get judged by the same standards as other characters? I mean if him easily tagging people with super speed means nothing, then he himself getting tagged and such should be meaningless as well regardless of it's frequency.


😂

Even though its not valid here, even marvel EIC doesn't thinks so.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Wait.

First para: Gods are different. Judge them differently.
Third para: Judge all characters equally.

OK...but putting that aside:

Yeah, if the ones who CAN'T match his high end feats tag him, sure, it COULD be PIS, assuming no one was holding back (Surfer can hold back etc).

That is where we asked for a small proportion of his feats, to see what they're like. Having been around for nearly 60 years, with thousands of showings, one would assume he'd have the showings, right? And yeah, handbooks (though not generally admissible) can also be supporting, if needed.

How would YOU (you always nitpick with very little to offer) quantify if a character has superspeed, and if so, the degree to which they do?


Different races have variances in base stats, that's not my standard that's just common sense. A Kryptonian who hasn't been named outrunning a lightning bolt is far different than a human outrunning a lightning bolt. We don't assume that a Kryptonian needs to outrace a bullet anywhere near as many times as someone like the Punisher would have to to prove that he/she could do it.

Right, but since his high end speedster type feats includes things like digging a large trench around a large group of people that included Quicksilver(who was already in motion) before he could react I don't see too many street level guys matching his high ends. Especially if we omit things like tagging speedsters as proof like you seem to want to do.

Well any/every "super" attribute is obviously subjective to an extreme. I tend to view such things through a lens resembling what the forum considers to be tiers rather than try to nail down any kind of exact number because we all know that specifics change writer to writer and day to day.

Do I think that Thor would be able to go head to head with any kind of real speedster in a race, no. Do I think he'll be able to land anywhere close to as many hits against Flash during a fight between the two, no. But I also don't think that he'd be totally unable to tag them if he's on his game. I know the way super speed is handled weird in comics, but that's the way it's handled. It makes literally NO sense whatsoever for a character to be able to produce cold that goes below absolute zero, but we credit Captain Cold with the tech to do so. It makes no logical sense to destroy an infinite number of universes one at a time until there's only 5 left, but we don't say such a feat is impossible for the Anti Monitor. By the same token, it makes no logical sense for someone to tag another character with a much higher degree of speed, but it's an ability comics have granted to a significant number of characters. The way I resolve such things in my mind(this is just my method, I'm not trying to push it on anyone else), is to think of it as a difference between mental speed and muscle speed. Thor doesn't have the mental speed to throw or dodge as many punches as a good speedster, but he's still got the raw muscle speed to attack REALLY fast. For instance(and this is just an example), lets say Quicksilver can throw 100 punches in a second while Thor can only throw one punch in a second. But even though he doesn't have the mental speed to throw as many punches as Quicksilver in that second, his Godly muscles might still throw his single punch at the same speed as any one of Quicksilver's punches. In such a scenario Thor might be screwed if Quicksilver never let up, but if he dialed it back for even a moment Thor might have a chance to land an attack. Again, totally made up scenario and example to enplane how I judge such things just to try to answer your question, I wasn't making any genuine claims in regards to Quicksilver and/or Thor.

The problem is perception.
A true speedster would view others (non speedsters) as statues or in very slow motion.

If that's the case then it is basically impossible to land a blow on the speedster if they are serious and fighting to full capacity.

And I agree that Thor's punch velocity or hammer swing velocity should be superhumanly fast. That's a good point.

This was on old argument made ages ago. Might have been odg and it goes soemthing like this.

Its always pis whenever he outreacts or tags known speedsters. Its never pis when he gets tagged by lower end peeps. Something to that efdect.

Originally posted by abhilegend
😂

Even though its not valid here, even marvel EIC doesn't thinks so.

Brevoort understands Thor more than Thor fans, shocking

About perception
Yeah but in comics theres skill fu, space fu, kung fu, and in tor's case theres god fu. Lol.

Sometimes he just reacts fast enuff. Something seems like theyre moving extremely fast, maybe even too fast for him.. Be it mach 1000 or near lightspeed, but at the point impact or right before that point, he does what he does. Its happened many times.
Maybe its part skill, maybe part perception, maybe part physical stats..? Maybe all of them are in play...

He does have heightened senses however. Thats for sure.

Originally posted by darthgoober
By your reasoning though, if Thor is a God and has feats to prove that he has superspeed, would it mean that every single time he gets hit by someone a street level who's not fast enough to match his high end stuff PIS regardless of how frequently it's happened?
Thor being a God doesn't mean anything when he regularly is shown as being slower/at the level of street levelers and his feats can and have been replicated by various people on that level.

Anymore than Wolverine 'being a mutant' or Spiderman 'being bitten by a Spider' meas that their feat count, while Batman's don't.

How long have you been arguing on KMC again?

This is a youtube-tier argument.

Originally posted by MrMind
Brevoort understands Thor more than Thor fans, shocking
Tbh, in this thread, they've have ran away from posting 20 feats of Thor's since 1962 that surpasses street levelers' feats and acknowledge they can't prove Thor is consistently faster than them.

So...they know, Mr. Mind. They know. But it's easier for them to blabber about incoherently, while running away like cowards every time they're challenged on facts.

Originally posted by Philosophía
Thor being a God doesn't mean anything when he regularly is shown as being slower/at the level of street levelers and his feats can and have been replicated by various people on that level.

Anymore than Wolverine 'being a mutant' or Spiderman 'being bitten by a Spider' meas that their feat count, while Batman's don't.

How long have you been arguing on KMC again?

This is a youtube-tier argument.

Tbh, in this thread, they've have ran away from posting 20 feats of Thor's since 1962 that surpasses street levelers' feats and acknowledge they can't prove Thor is consistently faster than them.

So...they know, Mr. Mind. They know. But it's easier for them to blabber about incoherently, while running away like cowards every time they're challenged on facts.

DS was saying that tagging a speedster if one isn't a speedster is PIS regardless of how many times it's happened. Thus if Thor has any "speedster" type feats, then regardless of how many times street level guys dances around him it's PIS unless they can at least come close to matching his(admittedly few relative to his total appearances) best speed feats(and DS himself was arguing against using tagging speedsters as feats so things like kneecapping Flash wouldn't wouldn't benefit the street level guys).

You're basically trying to support his argument that repeat occurrences don't matter by saying that repeat occurrences matter.

Originally posted by MrMind
Brevoort understands Thor more than Thor fans, shocking

Thor was never fast.

Wolverine blocked lasers and even ran past security lasers, nobody is trying to make him FTL in forum matches.

But... an idiot like Thor... suddenly gets a 35000x speed boost if some smellyhymen17 finds a feat of Thor THROWING A PIE AT HIGH SPEED... and Balder reacting much, much faster than it was needed for him to react, blocking it with his shield.

The deadly pie. Asgard's ultimate weapon.

Thorbags suck.

Originally posted by darthgoober
DS was saying that tagging a speedster if one isn't a speedster is PIS regardless of how many times it's happened. Thus if Thor has any "speedster" type feats, then regardless of how many times street level guys dances around him it's PIS unless they can at least come close to matching his(admittedly few relative to his total appearances) best speed feats(and DS himself was arguing against using tagging speedsters as feats so things like kneecapping Flash wouldn't wouldn't benefit the street level guys).

You're basically trying to support his argument that repeat showings don't matter by saying that repeat showings matter. [/B]

I've bolded the relevant part, to make it easier for you to understand.

Since Thor is not consistently above street levelers [both in relative speed showings against each other [Wolverine, Spiderman, Daredevil etc.] and in direct quantity and quality of feats], both him and the street levelers tagging true speedsters is PIS.

Which is his point exactly.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Thor was never fast.

Wolverine blocked lasers and even ran past security lasers, nobody is trying to make him FTL in forum matches.

But... an idiot like Thor... suddenly gets a 35000x speed boost if some smellyhymen17 finds a feat of Thor THROWING A PIE AT HIGH SPEED... and Balder reacting much, much faster than it was needed for him to react, blocking it with his shield.

The deadly pie. Asgard's ultimate weapon.

Thorbags suck.

Wolverine has had Thor himself admit Wolverine is faster, while in direct close quarters combat.

This doesn't count, btw.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Thor was never fast.

Wolverine blocked lasers and even ran past security lasers, nobody is trying to make him FTL in forum matches.

But... an idiot like Thor... suddenly gets a 35000x speed boost if some smellyhymen17 finds a feat of Thor THROWING A PIE AT HIGH SPEED... and Balder reacting much, much faster than it was needed for him to react, blocking it with his shield.

The deadly pie. Asgard's ultimate weapon.

Thorbags suck.


For me, it was largely his trench digging feats. For all people talk about how street level guys can match Thor's best, I've yet to see a street level guy do something like dig a large trench around a speeding Quicksilver before he can react.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Thor was never fast.

Wolverine blocked lasers and even ran past security lasers, nobody is trying to make him FTL in forum matches.

But... an idiot like Thor... suddenly gets a 35000x speed boost if some smellyhymen17 finds a feat of Thor THROWING A PIE AT HIGH SPEED... and Balder reacting much, much faster than it was needed for him to react, blocking it with his shield.

The deadly pie. Asgard's ultimate weapon.

Thorbags suck.


😆

Funny thing though, ull never see a street launch a missile at lightspeed.
Good thing u mentioned it. Gives me a an excuse to do this..
Eat it Stilt.

Originally posted by Philosophía
I've bolded the relevant part, to make it easier for you to understand.

Since Thor is not consistently above street levelers [both in relative speed showings against each other [Wolverine, Spiderman, Daredevil etc.] and in direct quantity and quality of feats], both him and the street levelers tagging true speedsters is PIS.

Which is his point exactly.

Wolverine has had Thor himself admit Wolverine is faster, while in direct close quarters combat.

This doesn't count, btw.


Which is where the disagreement comes in. You guys seem think that Asgardian's should basically be considered as human until they show something beyond, thus you view their feats with the same skepticism as you would someone like Night Thrasher. But Asgardians are a superhuman race so that falls flat. It's no different than insisting any specific Kryptonian show super speed multiple times to prove that he's faster than Night Thrasher IMO. Inherently inhuman characters have a lower bar to reach when it comes to supporting their inhuman abilities IMO.

But regardless, I was simply pointing out to DS that he was trying to have it both ways by saying that a non speedster tagging a speedster is PIS ever time while simultaneously saying that Thor getting tagged is relevant. Because if he had any showings to indicate that he was a speedster, then everything else would be PIS just as he said.

Double post

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
😆

Funny thing though, ull never see a street launch a missile at lightspeed.
Good thing u mentioned it. Gives me a an excuse to do this..
Eat it Stilt.

He didn't launch anything at lightspeed.

It was probably J Jonah Jameson flicking cigars away speed, Balder just overreacted.

It's a non-feat and you know it. Now post the micro-second feat. Digging the stupid tunnel. Or Hermes feat.

All weak af and discredited on KMC. Thorbags are dead.

Superman fans rule this place now. I had to pick a side...

Originally posted by darthgoober
Which is where the disagreement comes in. You guys seem think that Asgardian's should basically be considered as human until they show something beyond, thus you view their feats with the same skepticism as you would someone like Night Thrasher. But Asgardians are a superhuman race so that falls flat. It's no different than insisting any specific Kryptonian show super speed multiple times to prove that he's faster than Night Thrasher IMO.

But regardless, I was simply pointing out to DS that he was trying to have it both ways by saying that a non speedster tagging a speedster is PIS ever time while simultaneously saying that Thor getting tagged is relevant. Because if he had any showings to indicate that he was a speedster, then everything else would be PIS just as he said.

Now you're drawing false equivalencies and arguing against strawmen?

Nobody said Asgardians are human -- the same way Wolverine is a mutant -- but his feats don't count more than Batman's do.

Being non-human doesn't make you suddenly a consistent super-speedster -- nor does it make you feats count, while theirs doesn't.

We operate by feats, consistency and comparisons.

DS is right, in that both Thor and Street levelers tagging speedsters is PIS, and them tagging each other would not be, since they're all on the same level, far below speedsters.

Do you understand how your logic is non-existent?

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
He didn't launch anything at lightspeed.

It was probably J Jonah Jameson flicking cigars away speed, Balder just overreacted.

It's a non-feat and you know it. Now post the micro-second feat. Digging the stupid tunnel. Or Hermes feat.

All weak af and discredited on KMC. Thorbags are dead.

Superman fans rule this place now. I had to pick a side...


😂

Replace that with any other kitchenware, it still would have been lightspeed. Dude was serious even bringing up an actual speedster (Hermod)from his pantheon.

Here... How much speed did he put on this small stone to replicate the force of a comet impact?

Oh btw, I know damn well where ure loyalties lie.

Go bak to ure paymasters! For shame.

End of page lol