Originally posted by darthgoober
Because I'm able to process both of those thoughts, they're not mutually exlusive. It's very possible for something to be an obvious intended exception to a rule, Nightcrawler's powers would be one such example IMO. There's no logical reason to think that thread starters would want him to be unable to teleport.As for why it'd be limited to one planet... the fact that a "battle field" is acknowledged in the forum rules both as something that someone can be removed from to lose or forfeit the fight by leaving certainly suggest that there's some limit in the minds of the guys who wrote the rules and it doesn't seem like something that's even worth specifically mentioning being limited if it's larger than the planet it's starting on.
So what's your battlefield size, for Superman to 'leave' the field?
If you can't say, then how is he leaving?
This goes to Carver as well.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
So what's your battlefield size, for Superman to 'leave' the field?If you can't say, then how is he leaving?
This goes to Carver as well.
Originally posted by Adam Grimes
Nice try, but fights still happen in character. And I already covered that point when talking about the 'spirit of the thread'.That's why you never see me arguing Superman sundips in every fight, for example. 👆
So if I show this teleporter using that ability to leave, grab something and come back once, is that sufficient?
Originally posted by darthgoober
It's not like I keep an exact measurement in my mind, the rules are deliberately vague on such things. As for how I can say he's leaving without such a measurement, as I said before there's no logical reason in having rules regarding BFR or self BFR if the "battle field" is bigger than a planet. Otherwise knocking a brick into space wouldn't qualify as a BFR even if the opponent can't get back because space is included in the basic battlefield. Hulk knocking Juggernaut to the moon would be a stalemate in a forum fight because both would still be on the battlefield but totally unable to continue the fight without outside assistance.
Logical?
Heralds generally operate on planetary levels. When Zoom and Flash fight, they encompass the Earth. Gladiator crosses galaxies in the blink of an eye. Superman and Anointed One criss-crossed the globe. Hulk was punching and throwing Fin Fang Foom to the Moon. Blue Marvel was flying from the US to Greece in a matter of seconds. Superman (the 616 one) punched WW to the Sun and back, punched Lobo to the Moon, BM punched Sentry into space, Sentry was famous for throwing his problems into the Sun....You then limit them to.....500m or whatever.
And I'm not even getting into the Surfers and the Lanterns and other space based heralds.
As for knocking the bricks away...NOW you finally grasp why Hulk is placed as low as he is.
In short, you are arbitrarily placing a battlefield size, then coming in and chiming in (as you normally do) on a specific aspect of the argument, white knighting Carver, without realising you don't have a point. Because forum rules do not place a size, the OP hasn't placed a size, and you are merely doing it because it suits you.
Want to come at me with a fallback on 'hey, look, DA RULEZ!!!!'? Then make sure you actually know the rules first.
And yes, Carver, this goes to you too, as you were the first to bring it up.
To go back to your original post, no, it wouldn't be self-BFR, as there is no cap on the battlefield size specified.
Originally posted by carver9
So if I show this teleporter using that ability to leave, grab something and come back once, is that sufficient?
Read the rules, please.
Standard Equipment
Each side starts out with the equipment that they normally and have been shown to consistently carry on them. For example, Daredevil would have his billy-club, but Reed Richards would not have the Ultimate Nullifier.
In a scenario fight, the contestants in whose city/reality the fight takes place are allowed access to any material resources they usually have there or of any team they're active members of, as long as they can reasonably get to them.
If you have a fight set in Marvel Earth, then sure, Pixie can go home and come back with Prof X's Shi-Ar strap-on from his bottom bedside drawer (as long as you can prove she can reasonably get to them).
In a standard fight like this? No. If the fight is in Gotham? No.
I sometimes feel like I am the only one who reads the rules here. And crucially, understands them.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Logical?Heralds generally operate on planetary levels. When Zoom and Flash fight, they encompass the Earth. Gladiator crosses galaxies in the blink of an eye. Superman and Anointed One criss-crossed the globe. Hulk was punching and throwing Fin Fang Foom to the Moon. Blue Marvel was flying from the US to Greece in a matter of seconds. Superman (the 616 one) punched WW to the Sun and back, punched Lobo to the Moon, BM punched Sentry into space, Sentry was famous for throwing his problems into the Sun....You then limit them to.....500m or whatever.
And I'm not even getting into the Surfers and the Lanterns and other space based heralds.
As for knocking the bricks away...NOW you finally grasp why Hulk is placed as low as he is.
In short, you are arbitrarily placing a battlefield size, then coming in and chiming in (as you normally do) on a specific aspect of the argument, white knighting Carver, without realising you don't have a point. Because forum rules do not place a size, the OP hasn't placed a size, and you are merely doing it because it suits you.
Want to come at me with a fallback on 'hey, look, DA RULEZ!!!!'? Then make sure you actually know the rules first.
And yes, [b]Carver
, this goes to you too, as you were the first to bring it up.To go back to your original post, no, it wouldn't be self-BFR, as there is no cap on the battlefield size specified. [/B]
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
I'm not arguing against the rules.I'm agreeing 100% with them.
I'm saying there's nothing here to say him going to the Sun, with or without Thor, is removing himself from the battlefield's limits. As the battlefield's limits are not specified.
It's quite simple, really.
Seriously this kind of thing came up years ago because a few DC guys started talking about Supes leaving matches to sundip and power up. I'm pretty sure it was Pr who stepped forward and said that Supes isn't allowed to fly to the sun to sundip or drag his opponent there to beat on him because it would be leaving the battlefield. That's probably why when the convo first started I was thinking about it from the mindset of it being a sundip. Now I can't for the life of me remember when that went down so I can't point you there, but back then the situation had become so ridiculous that it probably stood out in PR's mind enough that he likely does if you want to check with him about it.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Cool.The battlefield is the solar system. There we go.
As much as you might like for the burden of proof to be on carver here, it's just not...
Well the burden of proof is on you to show the default battlefield is not.
You guys both assert that it's outside the battlefield. So prove it. Either with a ruling or whatever.
Otherwise, it's just you two asserting it is because 'well it is!!!'
Nothing in the rules say it is. Which is where mod rulings reside.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Well the burden of proof is on you to show the default battlefield is not.You guys both assert that it's outside the battlefield. So prove it. Either with a ruling or whatever.
Otherwise, it's just you two asserting it is because 'well it is!!!'
Nothing in the rules say it is. Which is where mod rulings reside.
Originally posted by darthgoober
You just very specifically asked for proof of a negative as if it's the next logical step in the discussion... think about that for a sec.
Originally posted by darthgooberYour assertion is that the sun is outside the battlefield.
It would still be self bfr.
It's not his job to prove that the sun is inside the battlefield since it was you who made the assertion that it's not.
In essence, you're the one who drew a made-up line in space, and then asked him to prove the made up line is not there.
I.e. asking him to prove the negative.
Quite ironic...so...I guess..."think about that for a sec"
Originally posted by Philosophía
Your assertion is that the sun is outside the battlefield.It's not his job to prove that the sun is inside the battlefield since it was you who made the assertion that it's not.
In essence, you're the one who drew a made-up line in space, and then asked him to prove the made up line is not there.
I.e. asking him to prove the negative.
Quite ironic...so...I guess..."think about that for a sec"
Originally posted by darthgoober
Because it seems pretty obvious to me that since the rules described the battlefield as a featureless plain, that totally leaving the planet upon which that plain is located would be leaving the battlefield. Especially since I remember Pr saying that Supes wasn't allowed to take off to the sun years back after OWAW.
Why is leaving the planet obvious, but not the solar system? You're basing this on nothing, except your own made up line.
Hell, what makes your think the sun in this situation is far away? Why isn't it just next door?
And yeah, as Phildo said......you're the one asking me to prove a negative, lol.
You using 'logic'doesn't wash, when I've already said how heralds at this level essentially play with planetary distances like humans treat 100m sprints.