Originally posted by LordGod
That's plot-induced-stupidity for ya. Because we know that Superman actively uses his super-speed in fights-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cktrew2Iq5A&t=2m22sand-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IAGz2bDlwqA&t=3m33sSo it's not like what I'm saying here is entirely without precedent.
Again- I assume that Superman is going into this scenario KNOWING that he has to duplicate Thor's feat as quickly and efficiently as possible. So with that in mind- he has super-speed that he ACTIVELY uses IN BATTLE, and he also has super-senses (like hearing and telescopic/x-ray vision) that he ACTIVELY uses IN BATTLE. Why are those abilities all of the sudden off the table here if we assume that Superman goes the HV route with his attack?
Thor had no way of knowing that the entire battlefield would collapse as a result of his bolt, unless he was already intimately familiar with how Jotumheim's surface was supported, and strategically fired his bolt in a spot where he knew it would take out enough of the supports to collapse the field. It's not impossible I guess, but it does seem unlikely. Especially since Thor came off as little more then a petulant brute at the beginning of the first movie.
Oh he uses his superspeed... in mostly reactionary, impulsive manner. Show me a feat of him using his superspeed to canvass a scene like what you're claiming here and you might have a point.
Again, Superman doesn't have prep here as per OP. Doesn't matter how you want to spin it, OP specifies he gets the exact same scenario as Thor which means no lengthy prep.
Your point on Thor just further supports the fact that the destruction was not purely due to the ice collapsing. Thor clearly meant his slam to affect the ice monster chasing after his friends which was already hundred of meters away. That means that he fully expected his strike to be that strong and that destructive.
Originally posted by FrothByteYou guys keep dodging the point.
Oh he uses his superspeed... in mostly reactionary, impulsive manner. Show me a feat of him using his superspeed to canvass a scene like what you're claiming here and you might have a point.Again, Superman doesn't have prep here as per OP. Doesn't matter how you want to spin it, OP specifies he gets the exact same scenario as Thor which means no lengthy prep.
Again- Superman goes into this KNOWING that his one and only goal is to duplicate Thor's feat as quickly and efficiently as possible. So why WOULDN'T he use all the abilities in his repertoire? Are we assuming that Superman forgets about all of his abilities here or what? 😕
Originally posted by FrothByteWait, what?
Your point on Thor just further supports the fact that the destruction was not purely due to the ice collapsing. Thor clearly meant his slam to affect the ice monster chasing after his friends which was already hundred of meters away. That means that he fully expected his strike to be that strong and that destructive.
What I'm saying is that whether it was intentional or not, Thor's bolt still just created a domino effect that collapsed the field, by way of weakening some of the field's supportive pillars. If Superman opted to go the HV route, it is completely logical that he could do the same.
......unless, like I mentioned above, he conveniently "forgets" to use any of his other powers in this scenario. I'll leave that up to y'all to decide tho. 👆
Originally posted by LordGod
You guys keep dodging the point.Again- Superman goes into this KNOWING that his one and only goal is to duplicate Thor's feat as quickly and efficiently as possible. So why WOULDN'T he use all the abilities in his repertoire? Are we assuming that Superman forgets about all of his abilities here or what? 😕
Wait, what?
What I'm saying is that whether it was intentional or not, Thor's bolt still just created a domino effect that collapsed the field, by way of weakening some of the field's supportive pillars. If Superman opted to go the HV route, it is completely logical that he could do the same.
......unless, like I mentioned above, he conveniently "forgets" to use any of his other powers in this scenario. I'll leave that up to y'all to decide tho. 👆
Nah, you keep trying to weasel around the OP stips. Superman only gets to know what he's about to do the same time Thor did... which is like a second before he decided to do it. If you want to claim that Superman will use his superspeed to scan the surrounding area, locate all the support pillars, calculate how many he needs to take out in order to cause such widescale destruction all within a split second, then please post a feat of Superman using his superspeed to create tactical plans like that.
Because as far as I know, Superman has never shown the ability to do what you're claiming.
Originally posted by FrothByte
Nah, you keep trying to weasel around the OP stips. Superman only gets to know what he's about to do the same time Thor did... which is like a second before he decided to do it. If you want to claim that Superman will use his superspeed to scan the surrounding area, locate all the support pillars, calculate how many he needs to take out in order to cause such widescale destruction all within a split second, then please post a feat of Superman using his superspeed to create tactical plans like that.Because as far as I know, Superman has never shown the ability to do what you're claiming.
Why does any of this matter? The spirit of the thread is whether Superman has the capability to do the feat. It's about whose more powerful. That's the spirit of the thread.
You guys want to nitpick about irrelevant stuff. That's fine.
I and others are satisfied with knowing that Superman has the capability of achieving the feat.
Originally posted by h1a8
Why does any of this matter? The spirit of the thread is whether Superman has the capability to do the feat. It's about whose more powerful. That's the spirit of the thread.
You guys want to nitpick about irrelevant stuff. That's fine.I and others are satisfied with knowing that Superman has the capability of achieving the feat.
No, the spirit of the thread is asking whether Superman can accomplish the same feat while being in the same situation as Thor. You want to disregard stips so you can give Superman an unfair advantage, that already tells me you don't believe he can actually do it.
Originally posted by FrothByte
No, the spirit of the thread is asking whether Superman can accomplish the same feat while being in the same situation as Thor. You want to disregard stips so you can give Superman an unfair advantage, that already tells me you don't believe he can actually do it.
The spirit is to compare the two character's power output. If you can't see that then you are an idiot. That's a fact.
Any reasonable person can see that. Stating that Superman has the capacity to do the feat but he won't because of his choice or lack of knowledge automatically defeats the purpose of the thread.
In other words, him having the power output capability to achieve the feat but not the necessary knowledge of knowing where to apply it (according to you) is not a knock on his power output.
It in no way shows that Thor has more power output or is more powerful. That's the only thing that matters here. If you disagree then again you are an idiot or a pure troll. And the discussion is over.
So Superman not achieving the feat has no bearing on his capability of achieving the feat or his power output in comparison to Thor's.
Originally posted by h1a8
The spirit is to compare the two character's power output. If you can't see that then you are an idiot. That's a fact.Any reasonable person can see that. Stating that Superman has the capacity to do the feat but he won't because of his choice or lack of knowledge automatically defeats the purpose of the thread.
In other words, him having the power output capability to achieve the feat but not the necessary knowledge of knowing where to apply it (according to you) is not a knock on his power output.
It in no way shows that Thor has more power output or is more powerful. That's the only thing that matters here. If you disagree then again you are an idiot or a pure troll. And the discussion is over.
So Superman not achieving the feat has no bearing on his capability of achieving the feat or his power output in comparison to Thor's.
So in other words, you want to give Superman a knowledge and prep advantage that Thor didn't have just so Superman can match his power output? Ok. Got it.
Originally posted by FrothByte
So in other words, you want to give Superman a knowledge and prep advantage that Thor didn't have just so Superman can match his power output? Ok. Got it.
The thing is, if you think about it H1 is basically admitting that Superman has zero chance of matching Thor's power output. That's why he's arguing for cutting support pillars as that would take orders of magnitude less power.
Even if he has to go against the stipulations of the thread starter to do it.
Originally posted by Silent Master
The thing is, if you think about it H1 is basically admitting that Superman has zero chance of matching Thor's power output. That's why he's arguing for cutting support pillars as that would take orders of magnitude less power.Even if he has to go against the stipulations of the thread starter to do it.
My argument is that Superman can achieve the feat with a swipe of his HV. That in no way implies that Superman can't match Thor's power output.
Originally posted by FrothByte
So in other words, you want to give Superman a knowledge and prep advantage that Thor didn't have just so Superman can match his power output? Ok. Got it.
That's irrelevant. All that matters is that Superman's power output is enough to achieve the feat. You can argue any other irrelevant thing all you like.
Originally posted by Silent Master
If you thought Superman's power output was enough, you wouldn't be going against the threads stipulations.
How does that make any sense? At this point you are stating stupid shit.
Obviously you and Froth admits that Superman has the power output to achieve the feat, but lacks the knowledge to know where to apply his power output.
Originally posted by h1a8That's irrelevant. All that matters is that Superman's power output is enough to achieve the feat. You can argue any other irrelevant thing all you like.
Yeah it's certainly irrelevant to give Superman an advantage Thor didn't have (completely going against OP stips) just so Superman can match Thor. /sarcasm