Originally posted by Philosophía
It's not about being more powerful, or about speed itself.For me, it's always been about speed steal.
Wally only immobilized Inertia because he was using velocity 9 to simulate speed, as soon as his speed returns he was free of it.
Originally posted by abhilegendI disagree, but why would he need to do it permanently in the first place? He could do it just enough so that Superman never touches him, while he IMPs him for however many times he'd like.
He can, Superman would just regenerate his speed since it comes from his own power. Wally can't immobilize him in permanent way.
Kind of like he did to Amazo, only he'd be fresh and stay around to plow him.
https://imgur.com/a/yI30aNI
There's nothing Superman can do. His range attacks are too slow to hit Flash, and he'd never get close enough, or be fast enough, to hit Wally, when the latter can instantly make him lose his speed competitiveness. As he would have done here, if not for the environment ramifications:
https://i.imgur.com/ubRy0U6.jpg
Originally posted by Philosophía
I disagree, but why would he need to do it permanently in the first place? He could do it just enough so that Superman never touches him, while he IMPs him for however many times he'd like.Kind of like he did to Amazo, only he'd be fresh and stay around to plow him.
https://imgur.com/a/yI30aNIThere's nothing Superman can do. His range attacks are too slow to hit Flash, and he'd never get close enough, or be fast enough, to hit Wally, when the latter can instantly make him lose his speed competitiveness. As he would have done here, if not for the environment ramifications:
https://i.imgur.com/ubRy0U6.jpg
Cold breath will slow down Flash enough and no Flash is so fast that Superman can't EVER hit them. Even Johns never made it so.
Originally posted by Parmaniac
Maybe I'm a bit off here but doesn't this apply to every character?
Originally posted by ParmaniacIt does, but the mistake abhi makes here is separating the speed force from the motion inside the universe -- when the speed force IS the motion of the universe. In that sense, whatever speed is produced is, by definition, speed force-related -- which Flash can steal. And has. From Superman himself.
Maybe I'm a bit off here but doesn't this apply to every character?
Originally posted by abhilegendIt's not a matter of Flash being so fast that Superman can't hit him, it's a matter of Flash being able to control Superman's speed by stealing it, so that he can't. Without speed steal, Superman would win, since he'd eventually break him with a slap.
That version of Amazo got his head blasted off by Black Canary. He was inconsistent as ****. And even then Superman blitzed the same Amazo who blitzed Flash.Cold breath will slow down Flash enough and no Flash is so fast that Superman can't EVER hit them. Even Johns never made it so.
Not everyone is as fast as Superman though.
Superman bullrushed Amazo and then then was not fast enough not to get beaten with red sun radiation at super-speed:
https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-6df0ad0f94f89c8d3638a5007f09c83f.webp
But we're going on tangents here, it's not like anybody is saying Wally can't steal the speed of Superman [Amazo showing or not] -- Flash can steal Superman's speed whenever he wants in a forum fight without worrying about damages [https://i.imgur.com/ubRy0U6.jpg], so he would. He knows he can't afford getting hit [obviously]. So he will, and there's nothing Supes can do about it. Heat vision has zero chance, since we've seen Wally faster than it [https://i.imgur.com/TuQgHOz.jpg] and freeze breath would never hit him, or even if it would... https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-6fbefedb97ba15f45b4731c5580f71c2.webp
Originally posted by abhilegend
He can, Superman would just regenerate his speed since it comes from his own power. Wally can't immobilize him in permanent way.
Wut?
I generate kinetic energy and speed everytime I move, lol
Anyway, if Superman.... regenerates his speed ......it's still part of the SF.
Originally posted by Philosophía
It does, but the mistake abhi makes here is separating the speed force from the motion inside the universe -- when the speed force IS the motion of the universe. In that sense, whatever speed is produced is, by definition, speed force-related -- which Flash can steal. And has. From Superman himself.It's not a matter of Flash being so fast that Superman can't hit him, it's a matter of Flash being able to control Superman's speed by stealing it, so that he can't. Without speed steal, Superman would win, since he'd eventually break him with a slap.
Superman bullrushed Amazo and then then was not fast enough not to get beaten with red sun radiation at super-speed:
https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-6df0ad0f94f89c8d3638a5007f09c83f.webpBut we're going on tangents here, it's not like anybody is saying Wally can't steal the speed of Superman [Amazo showing or not] -- Flash can steal Superman's speed whenever he wants in a forum fight without worrying about damages [https://i.imgur.com/ubRy0U6.jpg], so he would. He knows he can't afford getting hit [obviously]. So he will, and there's nothing Supes can do about it. Heat vision has zero chance, since we've seen Wally faster than it [https://i.imgur.com/TuQgHOz.jpg] and freeze breath would never hit him, or even if it would... https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-6fbefedb97ba15f45b4731c5580f71c2.webp
And gee, Amazo got totally beaten by that speed steal. Just look at that.
Speed steal is nice in theory but it just isn't portrayed that way in comics.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Wut?I generate kinetic energy and speed everytime I move, lol
Anyway, if Superman.... regenerates his speed ......it's still part of the SF.
although, you could argue Any character with telekinesis based flight would only be physically immobilized they still could move under outside imput like tk
You turned him into a giant bullet
Originally posted by abhilegend
Why would anyone be mad over that? Flash gets his ass kicked by everyone.
Why indeed.
Originally posted by Philosophía
It does, but the mistake abhi makes here is separating the speed force from the motion inside the universe -- when the speed force IS the motion of the universe. In that sense, whatever speed is produced is, by definition, speed force-related -- which Flash can steal. And has. From Superman himself.It's not a matter of Flash being so fast that Superman can't hit him, it's a matter of Flash being able to control Superman's speed by stealing it, so that he can't. Without speed steal, Superman would win, since he'd eventually break him with a slap.
Superman bullrushed Amazo and then then was not fast enough not to get beaten with red sun radiation at super-speed:
https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-6df0ad0f94f89c8d3638a5007f09c83f.webpBut we're going on tangents here, it's not like anybody is saying Wally can't steal the speed of Superman [Amazo showing or not] -- Flash can steal Superman's speed whenever he wants in a forum fight without worrying about damages [https://i.imgur.com/ubRy0U6.jpg], so he would. He knows he can't afford getting hit [obviously]. So he will, and there's nothing Supes can do about it. Heat vision has zero chance, since we've seen Wally faster than it [https://i.imgur.com/TuQgHOz.jpg] and freeze breath would never hit him, or even if it would... https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-6fbefedb97ba15f45b4731c5580f71c2.webp
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Originally posted by abhilegendI legitimately don't understand your point here, and what this has to do with the thread. Superman also got beaten by red sun at super-speed [after he bullrushed Amazo because he was closer than Flash, not faster]:
Yeah, Superman got beaten by red sun radiation. Unlike Flash who legit got speedblitzed.And gee, Amazo got totally beaten by that speed steal. Just look at that.
Speed steal is nice in theory but it just isn't portrayed that way in comics.
Again -- the crux of the thread. Do you disagree that Flash is able to, and I quote Wally himself, "I could steal all of Superman's kinetic energy and stop him cold" [https://i.imgur.com/ubRy0U6.jpg]? Do you disagree that this would be easily the most logical thing he would do, in order to make sure Superman never tags him? Do you disagree that Flash is faster than his heat vision/freeze breath and has solutions to avoid them?
If you don't, well, I don't see the disagreement. You don't think Flash can leave Superman a statue indefinitely? Ok. Then he steals, Superman gets some momentum and......Flash steals it again. Let's not forget, Flash himself also gets faster, the more he steals.
Point is, no matter how fast Superman is [and he is fast enough to beat Flash non-speed steal], this ability of Wally completely negates that. And Superman can't do anything about it.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Does he have to to control Superman's speed?
Even heat death of universe can't drain Superman's energy.
Originally posted by Philosophía
I legitimately don't understand your point here, and what this has to do with the thread. Superman also got beaten by red sun at super-speed [after he bullrushed Amazo because he was closer than Flash, not faster]:
https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-6df0ad0f94f89c8d3638a5007f09c83f.webp
"Unfortunately, not quite fast enough to avoid superspeed retaliation".
So...ok? Is Wally stealing the speed of the guy [Amazo] who was too fast for Superman, and, in your own words, blitz Flash himself, not a good showing for his speed steal?Again -- the crux of the thread. Do you disagree that Flash is able to, and I quote Wally himself, "I could steal all of Superman's kinetic energy and stop him cold" [https://i.imgur.com/ubRy0U6.jpg]? Do you disagree that this would be easily the most logical thing he would do, in order to make sure Superman never tags him? Do you disagree that Flash is faster than his heat vision/freeze breath and has solutions to avoid them?
If you don't, well, I don't see the disagreement. You don't think Flash can leave Superman a statue indefinitely? Ok. Then he steals, Superman gets some momentum and......Flash steals it again. Let's not forget, Flash himself also gets faster, the more he steals.
Point is, no matter how fast Superman is [and he is fast enough to beat Flash non-speed steal], this ability of Wally completely negates that. And Superman can't do anything about it.
Of course he can, he has already beaten total shut down of his body, has gone through heat death of universe. Wally? Can't even drain the momentum of a space ship fully.
How about that.
Originally posted by abhilegend
Yeah, Superman is just a random human who can be beaten like that.Sure....
he has already shown that he knows how to manipulate brain function via Kinetic Energy Manipulation. Shown here, he casualy manipulates the JL's brain function via Speed Lend, which is the exact opposite of Speed Steal. So what do you think would happen if Wally used Speed Steal on brain function? Use common sense
What is stopping Wally from slowing down Clark, gradually, until he is too slow to be a threat? We have literally seen Wally sapping kinetic energy from Supes while he was in mid flight. And have you forgotten that wvery ouncenof kinetic energy Wally steals instantly increases his speed? Have you also forgotten that Wally can slow down bloodflow and bodily functions? Superman wont be doing much moving while having his body, mind, and bloodflow all being slowed down.
