Flash vs Superman

Originally posted by abhilegend
Yup, Superman was total statue when Jay stole his speed.

Oh wait, he catches up to Jay on very next page.

And of course, Wally can just stop him cold because he said so, Superman was a total statue when Wally stole his speed too. And Amazo was a total statue when Wally stole his speed, well of course. Silly me to question such scenes.

As I said, if Wally is 100 and Superman is 95, Wally can increase that gap, at his leisure, to make himself 100++ and Superman much slower. He doesn't need to "make him a statue for all eternity" --- as I said, this is not a binary.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Wally has been killed by Superman level beings.

Superman has been drained by LESS THAN Wally level beings, lol.

Like who?

I'm convinced Flash can speed steal Superman effectively to keep a massive gap on their speed and become essentially untouchable to Kal.

Given the conditions in this thread though, Superman finds a way and knocks the sh_t out of Wally.

Originally posted by Philosophía
The point is not to show that Jay leaves him a statue -- the point is to show that he stole Superman's speed, slowed him down, and outsped him. And that's Jay -- the osteoporosis Flash -- not Wally. I mean you can think Wally is lying when he says that he could stop Superman cold [lol.......], despite the fact that he has controlled Superman's speed multiple times before. Amazo was literally frozen in the mannequin challenge ... https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-ca2bf115454d5eec0ffab29262954cb7.webp allowing Flash to escape. Wally could do this to Superman, imp him, then when Superman comes around, do it again, and IMP him...etc. But the fact of the matter is he doesn't even need to.

As I said, if Wally is 100 and Superman is 95, Wally can increase that gap, at his leisure, to make himself 100++ and Superman much slower. He doesn't need to "make him a statue for all eternity" --- as I said, this is not a binary.

Yup, Amazo is literally frozen for the rest of the comic.

https://readcomiconline.to/Comic/Justice-League-of-America-2006/Issue-23?id=27422

Oh wait, he isn't. Damn it.

IMP is a threat for Superman under Grant Morrison (even Wonder Woman took like dozen of light speed punches from Zoom and under Geoff Johns Flash actually broke his shoulders tackling Zoom at 100000 MPH and Zoom fought him for several pages at lightspeed).

Flash is only a threat for Superman if we take his highest showings, mix it with no limit fallacy for speed steal and pretend that 99% of his showings don't matter.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Jay slowed him down for a moment, that's exactly what Wally does to others as well. You're talking about Wally making Superman a statue, which has never been done.

Yup, Amazo is literally frozen for the rest of the comic.

https://readcomiconline.to/Comic/Justice-League-of-America-2006/Issue-23?id=27422

Oh wait, he isn't. Damn it.

IMP is a threat for Superman under Grant Morrison (even Wonder Woman took like dozen of light speed punches from Zoom and under Geoff Johns Flash actually broke his shoulders tackling Zoom at 100000 MPH and Zoom fought him for several pages at lightspeed).

Flash is only a threat for Superman if we take his highest showings, mix it with no limit fallacy for speed steal and pretend that 99% of his showings don't matter.

Amazo was momentarily frozen by having his speed stolen-- which Wally blatantly stated he could do to Superman as they were running, but didn't due to subsequent collateral damage [that has nothing to do with a forum fight]. Wally has previously, multiple times, also manipulated, on panel, Superman's speed [/stolen/lent]. Jay has slowed Supes down, easily.

We're not in a dungeons and dragons type of scenario here, where Flash slows down Superman, then his "user timeout is expired" and he can't do anything until Superman recovers. Flash drains, hits, then drains, then hits, then drains, then....you get the point, all the while Superman is helpless there. It doesn't matter how many IMPs you think Superman can take, when Wally can land them for however many times he'd like.

Imagine two cars racing, but one of the drivers [who also has the faster car] has a remote control that can stop the engine of the other car, at will, while getting a boost himself every time he does it. That's Flash.

Originally posted by Philosophía
Where did I say that Amazo was frozen for the rest of the comic? You keep moving this discussion to a strawman that I never argue -- it's either "Flash freezes Superman for all of eternity" or "It won't affect Superman". That's not what this is, as I've stated now -- twice.

Amazo was momentarily frozen by having his speed stolen-- which Wally blatantly stated he could do to Superman as they were running, but didn't due to subsequent collateral damage [that has nothing to do with a forum fight]. Wally has previously, multiple times, also manipulated, on panel, Superman's speed [/stolen/lent]. Jay has slowed Supes down, easily.

We're not in a dungeons and dragons type of scenario here, where Flash slows down Superman, then his "user timeout is expired" and he can't do anything until Superman recovers. Flash drains, hits, then drains, then hits, then drains, then....you get the point, all the while Superman is helpless there. It doesn't matter how many IMPs you think Superman can take, when Wally can land them for however many times he'd like.

Imagine two cars racing, but one of the drivers [who also has the faster car] has a remote control that can stop the engine of the other car, at will, while getting a boost himself every time he does it. That's Flash.

Except Flash has never fought like that, it's the same argument as Silver Surfer fanboys try to make. CIS free doesn't mean we are controlling the character.

My argument is that Flash can steal Superman's speed -- whether it's perma-freeze, temporarily freeze [i.e. Amazo] or just a repetitive steal to amp himself, make Superman considerably slower and have a large gap is irrelevant -- functionally, they all have the same consequence, Flash has free shots on a Superman that can't touch him.

If you think that Flash won't steal Superman's speed knowing that Clark would turn him into paste when he connects [while being convinced that Supes would kill everything, according to thread stipulations], I don't know what to tell you. I guess Flash will go into a slugfest with a 'creation is on the line' Supes 👆

Originally posted by Philosophía
My argument is that Flash can steal Superman's speed -- whether it's perma-freeze, temporarily freeze [i.e. Amazo] or just a repetitive steal to amp himself, make Superman considerably slower and have a large gap is irrelevant -- functionally, they all have the same consequence, Flash has free shots on a Superman that can't touch him.

If you think that Flash won't steal Superman's speed knowing that Clark would turn him into paste when he connects [while being convinced that Supes would kill everything, according to thread stipulations], I don't know what to tell you. I guess Flash will go into a slugfest with a 'creation is on the line' Supes 👆

Like I said CIS free doesn't means you get to control the character.

Originally posted by abhilegend
You started with Flash speed stealing Superman to the win (Not even IMP). Now you're saying Wally would go on repeatedly draining his speed and punching at lightspeed (which Superman can achieve casually at this point) but no, Wally would never be touched by Superman.

Like I said CIS free doesn't means you get to control the character.

I don't think 'speed steal Superman, who can tag him into paste and is trying to kill everybody' is a CIS-free Flash, but to each his own.

Agree to disagree. Suffice to say, the character you're arguing for has never appeared in comics (repeatedly speed stealing, IMPing with impunity, untouchable to Superman).

What do you think Flash would do here abhi?

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
What do you think Flash would do here abhi?

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
What do you think Flash would do here abhi?

Abhi:

Has Flash ever used this strategy of repeatedly speeding down an opponent? I'm guessing he has never needed to, but I kind of wonder if this is an at will ability he has or if it puts any stress on him

He has never done so.

Flash is a street level threat in comics, abstract level threat on forums.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Not what you think he would do.

So what do you think he would do, abhi?

Bearing in mind, I am asking specifically for actions/thought procesess YOU, abhi, think that Wally would engage in when the bell rings.

Based on your knowledge of his character and under these stips.

He'd put his chin up and take Superman's punch like a man Thanos-style

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
So what do you think he would do, abhi?