I don't think biden will be a very good president, or had ever been a very good politician, but what he won't do, and already hasn't done, is stand up and say "the other side made up a pandemic that is killing all of you, so ignore it, it's almost over and a hoax". Trump did nothing but divide and divide and divide. A president who tells a country to come together to beat a very real pandemic was necessary, and Trump absolutely blew it, and now it is too late.
Trump never said the virus was a hoax. He was implying the democrats were overplaying the seriousness.
You can say he was wrong, but he wasn't saying the virus was a hoax and at the time we didn't know what we do now so the dems were kinda overplaying it, all while Nancy toured china town in SF and the mayor of NYC encouraged folk to go to the movies.
Originally posted by Robtard
Nah, we gotta blame Biden for every covid-19 death that happens 24hrs after he becomes President, regardless that we won't see what his policies do for some time after that. This is somehow logical to them. Have fun with that, I say.
I'm applying the same magical logic that made Trump responsible for school shootings under him, but Obama not responsible for those that happened under his presidency.
Did you want to abandon this magical logic? We can 🙂
If you'd asked me before applying this logic I would have told you it wouldn't end well. You guys always think about the beginning but never contemplate the ending. Even though the ending is always bad for you lol.
Originally posted by truejedi
I had never heard of Irvin Baxter jr. Before reading the above article, had you? I think it is their stance on Covid that makes them newsworthy at all when they die of it.
Rev. Irvin Baxter, Jr. was the host of the television program End of the Age, which reaches 100 million households in North America and millions more across the globe.
Originally posted by Surtur
I don't want people to die but I am curious to see if folk will be consistent and blame Biden for any deaths that occur after January 20th.
No, despite the fact that coronavirus season technically starts at the end of Jan and ends at the end of April, the COVID-19 deaths will magically start to disappear.
We'll either state it was due to herd immunity or the amazingly terrific policies of Joe Biden. Hint: about 12 US states are around the herd immunity threshold.
Based the data, CA has a painful road ahead of them as they have not hit a comfortable threshold like NY.
https://coronavirusbellcurve.com/#statesherd
Herd Immunity does not mean 0 cases and 0 deaths. It means that the population have such high levels of immunity that the disease cannot "community" hop and create a pandemic.
https://apic.org/monthly_alerts/herd-immunity/
Anyway, it will magically be the useless and likely harmful policies and that Biden implements that will get all the credit.
Originally posted by truejedi
I don't think biden will be a very good president, or had ever been a very good politician, but what he won't do, and already hasn't done, is stand up and say "the other side made up a pandemic that is killing all of you, so ignore it, it's almost over and a hoax". Trump did nothing but divide and divide and divide. A president who tells a country to come together to beat a very real pandemic was necessary, and Trump absolutely blew it, and now it is too late.
Meeeehhh, this is pretty fair, actually. Good post.
👆
Originally posted by Surtur
Trump never said the virus was a hoax. He was implying the democrats were overplaying the seriousness.You can say he was wrong, but he wasn't saying the virus was a hoax and at the time we didn't know what we do now so the dems were kinda overplaying it, all while Nancy toured china town in SF and the mayor of NYC encouraged folk to go to the movies.
That is correct, I do wish that criticism of Trump had been more even handed, things like that really make a lot of people doubt the many valid criticisms that should be levied at Trump
Originally posted by Artol
That is correct, I do wish that criticism of Trump had been more even handed, things like that really make a lot of people doubt the many valid criticisms that should be levied at Trump
I was reading about this theory. It's also part of why the dems actually lost some house seats.
This guy is my hero for saying this:
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/24/opinion/coronavirus-lockdown.html
America Shouldn’t Have to Play by New York RulesBret Stephens
By Bret Stephens
Opinion Columnist
April 24, 2020Credit...Mike Segar/Reuters
In 1976, the artist Saul Steinberg drew a cover for The New Yorker — “View of the World from Ninth Avenue” — that became an instant classic. You know the one: Manhattan heavily in the foreground, the Hudson River, a brownish strip called “Jersey,” the rest of the America vaguely in the distance.It could almost be a map of the coronavirus epidemic in the United States.
Even now, it is stunning to contemplate the extent to which the country’s Covid-19 crisis is a New York crisis — by which I mean the city itself along with its wider metropolitan area.
As of Friday, there have been more Covid-19 fatalities on Long Island’s Nassau County (population 1.4 million) than in all of California (population 40 million). There have been more fatalities in Westchester County (989) than in Texas (611). The number of Covid deaths per 100,000 residents in New York City (132) is more than 16 times what it is in America’s next largest city, Los Angeles (8). If New York City proper were a state, it would have suffered more fatalities than 41 other states combined.
It isn’t hard to guess why. New York has, by far, the highest population density in the U.S. among cities of 100,000 or more. Commuters crowd trains, office workers crowd elevators, diners crowd restaurants. No other American city has the same kind of jammed pedestrian life as New York — Times Square alone gets 40 million visitors a year — or as many residents packed into high-rises. The city even has a neighborhood called Corona, which, it turns out, has among the highest rates of coronavirus infections.
Consider a thought experiment in which metropolitan New York weren’t just its own state, but its own country. What would the crisis for what remained of America look like, then? In this slightly smaller nation of a little more than 300 million people, the death toll would amount to about 7.5 per 100,000, slightly above Germany’s levels.No wonder so much of America has dwindling sympathy with the idea of prolonging lockdown conditions much further. The curves are flattening; hospital systems haven’t come close to being overwhelmed; Americans have adapted to new etiquettes of social distancing. Many of the worst Covid outbreaks outside New York (such as at Chicago’s Cook County Jail or the Smithfield Foods processing plant in Sioux Falls, S.D.) have specific causes that can be addressed without population-wide lockdowns.
Yet Americans are being told they must still play by New York rules — with all the hardships they entail — despite having neither New York’s living conditions nor New York’s health outcomes. This is bad medicine, misguided public policy, and horrible politics.
On Friday, I spoke with Tomislav Mihaljevic, C.E.O. of the widely admired Cleveland Clinic, and an advocate of the need to use “tailored and discriminating solutions” that also recognize regional differences. At the moment, he says, “We’re using the methodology from the 14th century to combat the biggest pandemic of the 21st century.” It can’t go on.
Dr. Mihaljevic acknowledges the necessity of the lockdowns to contain the virus, along with the urgent need for ramped-up testing and ongoing monitoring. But, he adds, “we cannot hold our breath forever.” The U.S. will not soon be able to test 330 million people. Effective therapies or vaccines may be long in coming. Covid-19 will be “a disease we have to learn to live with.”That means accepting that the immediate goal of public policy cannot be to eliminate the risk of Covid-19. It is to mitigate, manage and frame expectations for it — while not losing sight of other priorities. In Ohio Dr. Mihaljevic says that Covid patients take up just 2 percent of hospital capacity, and the curve of new infections has been flat for more than two weeks. Yet there has been a dramatic decline in people seeking care for heart attacks, strokes, or new cancers, presumably out of fear of going to hospital.
“The public conversation needs to be about the value of human life in its totality,” Dr. Mihaljevic says. That includes fewer restrictions on activity for people at the low end of the risk spectrum, while taking additional care of those on the high end.
Right now, there’s a lot of commentary coming from talking heads (many of them in New York) about the danger of lifting lockdowns in places like Tennessee. Perhaps the commentary needs to move in the opposite direction. Tennesseeans are within their rights to return to a semblance of normal life while demanding longer restrictions on New Yorkers.
I write this from New York, so it’s an argument against my personal interest. But I don’t see why people living in a Nashville suburb should not be allowed to return to their jobs because people like me choose to live, travel and work in urban sardine cans.
Gina Raimondo, the Rhode Island governor, was on to something when, a few weeks ago, she wanted to quarantine drivers arriving from New York. The rest of America needs to get back to life. We New Yorkers prefer our own company, anyway.
What non Americans don't understand, and a lot of Americans don't, is that most of our major news comes from New York City. There's a lot of very influential, very powerful people there. You'd better believe they'd totally abuse their positions if they got angry that NYC has to suffer unique restrictions, while Hicksville USA could get off mostly living life as before the pandemic.
That, and they honestly don't understand the rest of the country, because they never travel outside of Manhattan. We have respected media figures from big outlets saying as much, after 2016. All of our rhetoric from gun control to immigration is argued from a "What is good for New York" mindset, from writers and editors that dismiss the bulk of the nation as "Flyover states".
Originally posted by cdtm
This guy is my hero for saying this:https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/24/opinion/coronavirus-lockdown.html
What non Americans don't understand, and a lot of Americans don't, is that most of our major news comes from New York City. There's a lot of very influential, very powerful people there. You'd better believe they'd totally abuse their positions if they got angry that NYC has to suffer unique restrictions, while Hicksville USA could get off mostly living life as before the pandemic.
That, and they honestly don't understand the rest of the country, because they never travel outside of Manhattan. We have respected media figures from big outlets saying as much, after 2016. All of our rhetoric from gun control to immigration is argued from a "What is good for New York" mindset, from writers and editors that dismiss the bulk of the nation as "Flyover states".
Part of the "barrier of entry" into the mainstream media space is infrastructure.
However, with the advent of remote working, centralized critical infrastructure is no longer absolutely paramount. This is why we see a loss of viewership among MSM sources and a giant uptick in online sources such as YouTubers and streamers. No longer do you need multi-million dollar live-broadcast studios to garner a viewership of over a million.
And the MSM companies hate it.
However, this also breeds disinformation. The rigor from the MSM on fact checking (I know this seems like a joke but there is still fairly solid fact checking going on a comfortable majority of the time at most MSM places) keeps them more credible than charismatic YouTubers who get just as many if not more views.
Anyway, we are getting much more variety of opinion. We get to hear from doctors and epidemiologists during the COVID-19 situation that disagree with the "experts" of the MSM. If the experts do not agree with the MSM's chosen narrative, they get silenced and shunned. Too bad: they still get interviewed and we get great expert information that is accurate and focuses on the science instead of dishonest agendas. We are talking the world's top minds not getting time on these MSM outlets. Why? Don't we have a right to know what we should be doing?
Yes we do. 🙂
Oh, hey, had the governments listened to the non-MSM experts on how to handle the pandemic, we'd have saved tens of thousands of lives by not rehousing elderly who were positive. Doesn't that make you sad?
Originally posted by cdtm
This guy is my hero for saying this:https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/24/opinion/coronavirus-lockdown.html
What non Americans don't understand, and a lot of Americans don't, is that most of our major news comes from New York City. There's a lot of very influential, very powerful people there. You'd better believe they'd totally abuse their positions if they got angry that NYC has to suffer unique restrictions, while Hicksville USA could get off mostly living life as before the pandemic.
That, and they honestly don't understand the rest of the country, because they never travel outside of Manhattan. We have respected media figures from big outlets saying as much, after 2016. All of our rhetoric from gun control to immigration is argued from a "What is good for New York" mindset, from writers and editors that dismiss the bulk of the nation as "Flyover states".
I prefer my heroes not be complete idiots. Case in point: Chicago has had more stringent restrictions than the rest of state, because rural Illinoisans made the same argument. Now, Cook county has a positivity rate below 3% and Winnebago county has a positivity rate above 12%. The virus does not behave differently in urban and rural America. It just takes longer to get to rural America, but once it takes hold, the effects are the same. Had they taken the same stringent measures as urban centers, they would be open to indoor dining right now too instead of complaining about their now necessary remediation measures.
Originally posted by Adam_PoE
I prefer my heroes not be complete idiots. Case in point: Chicago has had more stringent restrictions than the rest of state, because rural Illinoisans made the same argument. Now, Cook county has a positivity rate below 3% and Winnebago county has a positivity rate above 12%. The virus does not behave differently in urban and rural America. It just takes longer to get to rural America, but once it takes hold, the effects are the same. Had they taken the same stringent measures as urban centers, they would be open to indoor dining right now too instead of complaining about their now necessary remediation measures.
Isn't this a rather dishonest OR plain ignorant (highly unlikely in your case because you're actually really damn smart) representation of how infection vectors work?
If it takes longer to make it to more rural areas, then you're observing a lag in infections in those rural areas that the populous areas already experienced. As such, a temporal like-for-like comparison would be more accurate to see where they fall on the infection curves, positivity rates, and mortality rates (and IFRs).* Additionally, testing per 100K people is also a far more honest measure than just simply quoting an out of context positivity rate. If you only have 2 people infected and you test 10 people, your positivity rate is 20%.
So what does your point look like when you do an apples to apples comparison? In other words, when you honestly represent the data, what does it look like?
Deaths in Cook County: 1/887
Deaths in Winnebago County: 1/1,314
And the new case data almost exactly mirrors Cook County and Winnebago County. Almost exactly.
If you look at other rural counties in Illinois, you see a negative trend. So why did you single out Winnebago instead of Edwards County which had zero deaths and far less strict measures? Because it didn't fit your dishonest narrative.
And, in fact, if you look at all of Illinois, the large majority of cases and deaths comes for Cook County. That largely has to do with the population of Chicago.
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/us/illinois-coronavirus-cases.html#map
Here's what we DO know from the actual science: policies simply don't work to combat the virus. The best we can do is delay it. And delaying, in some research, indicates we end up killing more people in the long run. The point of delaying is to "Flatten the Curve" so our hospitals are not overwhelmed. But if the hospitals are not at risk of being overwhelmed, we should not delay the spread of the virus at all to save the most lives in the long run.
None of the things I just said are my ideas: these are the strategies that actual epidemiologists have outlined since April.
That's if you want your coronavirus data to look like this:
Instead of this:
*Completely unnecessary since the case data largely mirrors everywhere in all counties. No real lag.
Originally posted by truejedibloody sad, but DDM will never acknowledge, he has simply invested too much and sadly paid the consequences on this board... Hey ho, I wish him well.
https://wgntv.com/news/coronavirus/illinois-reports-record-number-of-covid-19-cases-and-hospitalizations-biggest-spike-in-deaths-since-late-may/
Magically large pro biden gatherings, with a ton of no social distancing and not everyone wearing masks...are not deemed super spreaders by the media.
Jake Tapper expresses that he is hesitant to "scold" these people. Of course he didn't feel the same about trump supporters.
Lol "but don't call us the enemy".
Originally posted by Surtur
Magically large pro biden gatherings, with a ton of no social distancing and not everyone wearing masks...are not deemed super spreaders by the media.Jake Tapper expresses that he is hesitant to "scold" these people. Of course he didn't feel the same about trump supporters.
Lol "but don't call us the enemy".
You should try and get madder, see if that helps?