Coronavirus

Originally posted by eThneoLgrRnae
👆

Agreed. Arguing that any blood is on Trump's hands is just retarded but then, we are talking about people heavily infected with TDS so it's not surprising really that they're trying to pin the blame on Trump instead of China.

Perhaps if Trump hadn't had his attention diverted by all of the BS impeachment shenanigans the crybaby democrats were engaging in he would've been better able to respond to the threat.

So, I'll be damned if I'm gonna blame Trump for this. The dems are more responsible than he is. .. so is the media. They were saying that the virus was no more dangerous than the common flu before Trump did.

So Trump merely repeats what they say and it's "OMG, he's causing people to die by downplaying it! How dare he?!"

The only way I can see someone trying to reasonably justify blaming Trump is if they blame him for trusting what the lying media said. I agree that Trump should've learned by now not to trust them but I still put more blamed on the dems and the media than I do him. China though, gets the real blame and nothing any anti-Trump retard says in this thread or elsewhere is gonna change that. 👆

Trump/Pence 2020.

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
This is solid discourse here. I provided evidence and you can't be arsed to read it.

Are you Rick Scott's sock account?

The WHO has been accused to kissing China's ass, alienating Taiwan, and not declaring it a PHEIC until January 30th. Which you might realize is almost two months before Donald realized what a virus was.

I’ve heard this before. It must have been a liberal media talking point, because I know you didn’t actually have inception on your own with this craziness

Originally posted by Bashar Teg

Lulz.

Originally posted by Silent Master
So basically, you have no opinions of your own.

I have an educated opinion which I'm supporting. Your inability to provide a counter argument tells me you have an uneducated opinion you're clinging to desperately, like a trash fire in a blizzard.

Originally posted by eThneoLgrRnae
👆

Agreed. Arguing that any blood is on Trump's hands is just retarded but then, we are talking about people heavily infected with TDS so it's not surprising really that they're trying to pin the blame on Trump instead of China.

China's responsibility is first to its citizens, as is Trump's to us. Evidence has shown that he was made aware of the coming storm and chose to ignore it. The CDC acknowledged the danger back in December; the WHO declared it a PHEIC end of January. Just two weeks ago, Trump was pretending like we were going to be open for Easter and lamenting the stock market's struggles while poo poo'ing the pandemic.

He was clearly wrong. You can accept this or stick your fingers in your ears. Your call.

Perhaps if Trump hadn't had his attention diverted by all of the BS impeachment shenanigans the crybaby democrats were engaging in he would've been better able to respond to the threat.

Yeah, it's too bad Trump was the subject of an investigation which found possible obstructions of justice in his time in office of which he got a pass because his Republican friends toe'd the line anyways. Maybe he could have used all that time to read up on what a pandemic is instead of fighting people on twitter.

So, I'll be damned if I'm gonna blame Trump for this. The dems are more responsible than he is. .. so is the media. They were saying that the virus was no more dangerous than the common flu before Trump did.

Source?

So Trump merely repeats what they say and it's "OMG, he's causing people to die by downplaying it! How dare he?!"

See above. Source? The one who makes the claim bears the burden of proof.

The only way I can see someone trying to reasonably justify blaming Trump is if they blame him for trusting what the lying media said.

Let me guess; the lying media is anything Trump doesn't agree with?

I agree that Trump should've learned by now not to trust them but I still put more blamed on the dems and the media than I do him. China though, gets the real blame and nothing any anti-Trump retard says in this thread or elsewhere is gonna change that. 👆

Trump/Pence 2020.

If you have an educated opinion, what is it?

Originally posted by BrolyBlack
I’ve heard this before. It must have been a liberal media talking point, because I know you didn’t actually have inception on your own with this craziness

No, I don't watch 'libtard' news. Only idiots get their fill from partisan news and refuse to fact check it or challenge its findings. This information is readily available from this wonderful thing called "anything else but that".

WHO declaration on Jan 30th

Since I suspect you can't read more than a milk carton's worth of text without a need for Excedrin, I'll give you some of it:

To all countries
It is expected that further international exportation of cases may appear in any country. Thus, all countries should be prepared for containment, including active surveillance, early detection, isolation and case management, contact tracing and prevention of onward spread of 2019-nCoVinfection, and to share full data with WHO. Technical advice is available on the WHO website.

Originally posted by Silent Master
If you have an educated opinion, what is it?

No shit, they weren't kidding about Waste My Time 2020 over here.

^ Here's the lizard people eyes of Shillery judging you bro.

^Obvious retard infected with TDS.

Trump/Pence 2020.

If you can't put your opinion in your own words, then it's not really your opinion. It's just you regurgitating talking points.

Originally posted by Robtard
@ziggy. If you're going to give Trump credit because he's POTUS (and that's fair enough), be willing to give blame for the same reasons, as he's the one with supreme executive power.

In regards to your "but China!!1!, see above.

Is that Ziggy?

Welcome back, Ziggy. How is your situation? Do you still have employment?

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
No, I don't watch 'libtard' news. Only idiots get their fill from partisan news and refuse to fact check it or challenge its findings. This information is readily available from this wonderful thing called "anything else but that".

WHO declaration on Jan 30th

Since I suspect you can't read more than a milk carton's worth of text without a need for Excedrin, I'll give you some of it:

[b]To all countries
It is expected that further international exportation of cases may appear in any country. Thus, all countries should be prepared for containment, including active surveillance, early detection, isolation and case management, contact tracing and prevention of onward spread of 2019-nCoVinfection, and to share full data with WHO. Technical advice is available on the WHO website. [/B]

Hey, Stealth Moose. Welcome back!

What about you, do you still have a source of income or did you get laid off/furloughed too? Hope things are well in your household.

Originally posted by eThneoLgrRnae
^Obvious retard infected with TDS.

Trump/Pence 2020.

Originally posted by Silent Master
If you can't put your opinion in your own words, then it's not really your opinion. It's just you regurgitating talking points.

I did put it into my own words, and then used a detailed source to back it up. That's why my initial post, which you so daringly cross examined, wasn't in quotes.

#wastemytime2020.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Is that Ziggy?

Welcome back, Ziggy. How is your situation? Do you still have employment?

Hey, Stealth Moose. Welcome back!

What about you, do you still have a source of income or did you get laid off/furloughed too? Hope things are well in your household.

Hey dude.

I'm laid off at the moment, but it's just temporary and I saved up for shit happens since a few times in the last few years, shit did happen. Things are good here, how about you?

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
Hey dude.

I'm laid off at the moment, but it's just temporary and I saved up for shit happens since a few times in the last few years, shit did happen. Things are good here, how about you?

I am well and having to work more than ever because I work in the energy sector and we are more essential than ever. That's good and bad.

Glad you're thrifty and can weather this bullshit storm, financially. I'm sorry this happened to you.

I probably lucked out in terms of work during this period. One of the companies I do work for is partnering with local universities. Basically making and captioning lecture recordings, slapping them together and making them available for students in lock down to access, so that these couple of weeks aren't a total loss. It's not the best pay, but it's fairly easy and consistent work during a period where many people can't do shit and are basically waiting for their savings to run out.

I am worried about some of my friends though. At least one of them is almost broke already and he has other people he needs to support.

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
If someone sets a fire next door, and I don't evacuate my house in a timely manner, I can't just blame the neighbor.

While I am mostly torn between both sides of the argument (I admit, both sides do make a point and I am enjoying the interchange) and yes, Trump could have reacted faster and DEF x100 should not have echoed the WHO talking points downplaying the virus, the above statement bothers me.

IF someone sets a fire next door, the true fault is neither on the neighbor (unless he was the one who set the fire) and myself (who failed to evac my house quickly enough).

The fault lies with the person setting the fire.

However:

IF a person didn’t evac his house in a timely manner, then said person would possibly be guilty of being an idiot. Not guilty of being a arsonist or murderer, however.

At the end, I think, one can accuse Trump of being a fool for not acting quickly enough (tho it is arguable as the WHO WAS the basis of a lot of actions done by governments). But accusing him of blood on his hands might be a step too far IMO (not aimed at you, just in general).

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
No, I don't watch 'libtard' news. Only idiots get their fill from partisan news and refuse to fact check it or challenge its findings. This information is readily available from this wonderful thing called "anything else but that".

WHO declaration on Jan 30th

Since I suspect you can't read more than a milk carton's worth of text without a need for Excedrin, I'll give you some of it:

[b]To all countries
It is expected that further international exportation of cases may appear in any country. Thus, all countries should be prepared for containment, including active surveillance, early detection, isolation and case management, contact tracing and prevention of onward spread of 2019-nCoVinfection, and to share full data with WHO. Technical advice is available on the WHO website. [/B]

I appreciate your vigor. And for the brain bleach

Do tell how that Press Release Words only jive with this.

WHO sat on Covid 19

I will believe a reputable reporter over a WHO press release

Originally posted by Nibedicus
While I am mostly torn between both sides of the argument (I admit, both sides do make a point and I am enjoying the interchange) and yes, Trump could have reacted faster and DEF x100 should not have echoed the WHO talking points downplaying the virus, the above statement bothers me.

IF someone sets a fire next door, the true fault is neither on the neighbor (unless he was the one who set the fire) and myself (who failed to evac my house quickly enough).

The fault lies with the person setting the fire.

However:

IF a person didn’t evac his house in a timely manner, then said person would possibly be guilty of being an idiot. Not guilty of being a arsonist or murderer, however.

At the end, I think, one can accuse Trump of being a fool for not acting quickly enough (tho it is arguable as the WHO WAS the basis of a lot of actions done by governments). But accusing him of blood on his hands might be a step too far IMO (not aimed at you, just in general).

X2👆

Originally posted by dadudemon
I am well and having to work more than ever because I work in the energy sector and we are more essential than ever. That's good and bad.

Glad you're thrifty and can weather this bullshit storm, financially. I'm sorry this happened to you.

Sorry it happened to you too. Being essential is rough. I dodged it barely, and I'm glad I did, because work ramped up hard before the eventual complete layoff in a week or two.

Originally posted by Nibedicus
While I am mostly torn between both sides of the argument (I admit, both sides do make a point and I am enjoying the interchange) and yes, Trump could have reacted faster and DEF x100 should not have echoed the WHO talking points downplaying the virus, the above statement bothers me.

IF someone sets a fire next door, the true fault is neither on the neighbor (unless he was the one who set the fire) and myself (who failed to evac my house quickly enough).

The fault lies with the person setting the fire.

However:

IF a person didn’t evac his house in a timely manner, then said person would possibly be guilty of being an idiot. Not guilty of being a arsonist or murderer, however.

At the end, I think, one can accuse Trump of being a fool for not acting quickly enough (tho it is arguable as the WHO WAS the basis of a lot of actions done by governments). But accusing him of blood on his hands might be a step too far IMO (not aimed at you, just in general).

Being foolish equates to needless deaths. Trump can't prevent all deaths, and it's unreasonable to think that he could do so. However, timing is everything when measures were called for concern by experts well in advance. I'll use a tamer analogy:

IF my neighbor's house catches fire through no fault of his own, AND I neglect to react in a timely nature, THEN it stands to reason I am at some fault for damages and death related to my hesitation. After all, I can't be accused of being ignorant to the housefire when I see my neighbor flee for his life, can I?

Originally posted by BrolyBlack
I appreciate your vigor. And for the brain bleach

Do tell how that Press Release Words only jive with this.

WHO sat on Covid 19

I will believe a reputable reporter over a WHO press release

Did you just post a Fox news bit to settle the debate? A privately owned, blatantly partisan sensationalist news organization which exists to get ratings and revenue over... the actual WHO?

What's next, the National Inquirer?

Did you post an article from the WHO which is a corrupt agency that we just previously had a huge discussion on here about being corrupt before you showed up?

Maybe go back and read 20 pages or more

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
Being foolish equates to needless deaths. Trump can't prevent all deaths, and it's unreasonable to think that he could do so. However, timing is everything when measures were called for concern by experts well in advance. I'll use a tamer analogy:

IF my neighbor's house catches fire through no fault of his own, AND I neglect to react in a timely nature, THEN it stands to reason I am at some fault for damages and death related to my hesitation. After all, I can't be accused of being ignorant to the housefire when I see my neighbor flee for his life, can I?

That is certainly a better analogy. Though still not as accurate as I would like.

A perfectly accurate one would be if someone’s house was on fire and a fireman (WHO) told me not to worry and stay at home. IF the fire then spread into my house and I evacuated too late, then of course the blame would lie on my not being smart enough to make a self-assessment on the possible dangers of said fire.

And yes, mistakes of ppl at this level of power WILL cost loves. Always. But not just mistakes, even seemingly correct actions where they need to weigh the needs of the few vs the many or simply acting on long term vs short term gains. This has been the case in wars, in implementation/formulation of health care laws and even as simple as the allocation of funds.

In this specific case, it was perhaps the weighing between the REAL economic impact that severe national panic can cause (w/c would also cause lives) vs a virus that the WHO (w/c was the body of experts trusted to give the correct assessment by world governments) grossly under-stated. Whereas the former option can be acted upon immediately (via alleviating fears) while the latter requires a HUGE act that will have resistance from every side (and if he was wrong, he would be severely crucified for it). Personally, I don’t envy anyone that decision although. But I will say I would have acted on the latter, f*ck the economy.

So with this realization, I will walk back my former comment. Trump does have blood on his hands. Every politicians has blood on their hands. All politicians at this level will have their basically dripping with it. That is the job.

And all we are really doing now is simply criticizing him for the blood type.

Originally posted by BrolyBlack
Did you post an article from the WHO which is a corrupt agency that we just previously had a huge discussion on here about being corrupt before you showed up?

Maybe go back and read 20 pages or more

I figured since you had your thumb on the pulse of truth you could readily provide to me said proof. But instead you burden me with 20 pages of grab ass and a Faux News article which is dubious at best.

Your assertion: The WHO are corrupt; therefore, they sat on evidence in a transparent attempt to favor China, and are responsible for every death stemming from the outbreak.

Issues with this:

1. The level of 'corruption' in the WHO is not objective fact. The burden of proof is on you to provide corruption specific to your assertion. That is, simply providing any corruption is insufficient if it does not directly relate to this issue.

2. The WHO did their job in terms of communicating with China and the world, and made their recommendations public often, early, with some caution to avoid causing undo panic with their PHEIC declaration. This is evident in the very article I posted and evident in the fact that some nations' medical bodies took notice as they're supposed to, like the CDC.

3. The WHO is a reactionary body, which attempts to get coordination from its member nations and work on a solution which benefits them. It is not an executive branch of some planet wide shadow government, and it cannot act on anything other than information given to it by member states. This includes access to the sick, information and data, and up to date statistics. The WHO can try to put boots on the ground, but if a member nation cockblocks them, it's not their fault.

If the information is given, and a member nation fails to react on it at in a timely and efficient manner, then it stands to reason the WHO are not culpable for the deaths and mayhem caused. The nation in question is culpable and those in a position to make policy decisions have blame for their actions, if those actions lead to needless infection and death.

--

If that's too much English for you, I'll break it down:

Jimmy has measles.

Jimmy goes in the ballpit at Rat Cheese Emporium.

RCE finds out later from Jimmy's mom and calls the parents of the other kids in attendance that day.

Some of those parents decide to delay or ignore the recommendation to seek medical help and isolate/quarantine.

Additional kids get sick, and some even die as a result of this.

RCE is not responsible for the spread, given that they did their job in educating the parents on issue and proper course of action.

Additionally, RCE is not showing favoritism to Jimmy's mom in this case by sitting on anything

--

Originally posted by Nibedicus
That is certainly a better analogy. Though still not as accurate as I would like.

A perfectly accurate one would be if someone’s house was on fire and a fireman (WHO) told me not to worry and stay at home. IF the fire then spread into my house and I evacuated too late, then of course the blame would lie on my not being smart enough to make a self-assessment on the possible dangers of said fire.

And yes, mistakes of ppl at this level of power WILL cost loves. Always. But not just mistakes, even seemingly correct actions where they need to weigh the needs of the few vs the many or simply acting on long term vs short term gains. This has been the case in wars, in implementation/formulation of health care laws and even as simple as the allocation of funds.

In this specific case, it was perhaps the weighing between the REAL economic impact that severe national panic can cause (w/c would also cause lives) vs a virus that the WHO (w/c was the body of experts trusted to give the correct assessment by world governments) grossly under-stated. Whereas the former option can be acted upon immediately (via alleviating fears) while the latter requires a HUGE act that will have resistance from every side (and if he was wrong, he would be severely crucified for it). Personally, I don’t envy anyone that decision although. But I will say I would have acted on the latter, f*ck the economy.

So with this realization, I will walk back my former comment. Trump does have blood on his hands. Every politicians has blood on their hands. All politicians at this level will have their basically dripping with it. That is the job.

And all we are really doing now is simply criticizing him for the blood type.

It's difficult not to blame people when lives are lost, because there's an innate need to feel justified in most people. And you're right, a lot of leaders will invariably make decisions which cost lives. That's fact.

But we don't (or shouldn't) blame say, a surgeon who is attempting a risky life saving operation who fails despite planning and intent. We should blame a surgeon who puts off the surgery or fails to plan for foreseen eventualities during the procedure.