Originally posted by Senor Cage
Better than soloing the Batfamily?
That overstating it by a lot. By the end of the recent League of Shadows arc in detective comics (which I believe you are referencing), Cass was stalemating Shiva by herself for much of the fight. Which certainly is still elite, but also not someone who is portrayed as unbeatable on the forums.
Also all of her history should also be taken into account. Some members of the batfamily have also beaten her one on one. Jason Todd, Huntress (silly but happen), and of course Bruce and Cassandra.
Then you have showings like against fake Prometheus who 1-shotted her or Stryx who broke her arm and held her own despite going through a gauntlet of warriors right before their fight.
So while Lady Shiva is an elite fighter her reputation on the forums of being unbeatable and soloing everyone else doesn't hold up under scrutiny. Especially when Elektra has the stats and feats plus her rare ninja mental tricks to give her an edge in a close contest like this.
Batman being more or less skilled than Wolverine isn't the debate here. This isn't just about skills, everything goes into who is more formidable. Elektra owned wolvie who has enhances stats, senses, healing factor, nigh unbreakable skeleton and claws, etc. Shiva owned Bats who may have used a couple of batarangs and the rest was h2h.
So I still don't see how owning Bats would be better than owning Wolvie here.
Still waiting on the scans or evidence on how Shiva stomps Elektra. Elektra feats will match Shiva or exceed in speed, strength, basically ever stat or category.
Shiva owned the batfamily and secret six. Those two feats exceed Elektras, imo. Enhanced stats? Batman is considered a meta, who stalemated Karate Kid (3boot). Shiva owned Azrael, who is considered a meta. Having enhanced stats doesnt guarantee a win, skill does. Shiva outclasses Elektra in skill.
Elektra might have a better team, though.
Originally posted by Senor Cage
Shiva owned the batfamily and secret six. Those two feats exceed Elektras, imo.
lol Why? Just because you need it too. I already stated how members of the bat-family and Strix have done much better against Shiva one on one. In one of my previous post I mentioned Huntress instead of Tim Drake. Even though Huntress did much better against Shiva than she should have, it was Tim Drake with a whistling staff that actually beat her in a sparring match. And we know how dangerous a Shiva sparring match is.
Plus much of that secret six was unknown or rebooted characters drastically different than before. Mostly no names.
Anyways Elektra has beaten the Serpent Squad. And the assassins guild both groups equal or better than that secert 6. She also had to protect two others while fighting off assassins guild members, Whiplash, Tiger Shark, Blizzard, Shocker & Boomerang, Jack O Lantern & Blackout, Crossbones, Whirlwind.
Originally posted by Senor Cage
Enhanced stats? Batman is considered a meta, who stalemated Karate Kid (3boot). Shiva owned Azrael, who is considered a meta. Having enhanced stats doesnt guarantee a win, skill does. Shiva outclasses Elektra in skillElektra might have a better team, though.
That's the thing though, Elektra has the stats, and the skills. She also got the mystical ninja powers she can use in a pinch. Got any scans of Shiva owning Azrael. I think they had an encounter but I would like to see it.
But yeah I'm still asking for feats from Lady Shiva that makes her better than what Elektra has done. You state Shiva outclasses Elektra in skill, I'm waiting on the proof.
I've heard a lot about how Lady Shiva would stomp throughout the years, yet all I really see are platitudes. And an uncomfortable amount of less than stellar showings based on her limited appearances.
Originally posted by Supermutant
That overstating it by a lot. By the end of the recent League of Shadows arc in detective comics (which I believe you are referencing), Cass was stalemating Shiva by herself for much of the fight. Which certainly is still elite, but also not someone who is portrayed as unbeatable on the forums.Also all of her history should also be taken into account. Some members of the batfamily have also beaten her one on one. Jason Todd, Huntress (silly but happen), and of course Bruce and Cassandra.
Then you have showings like against fake Prometheus who 1-shotted her or Stryx who broke her arm and held her own despite going through a gauntlet of warriors right before their fight.
So while Lady Shiva is an elite fighter her reputation on the forums of being unbeatable and soloing everyone else doesn't hold up under scrutiny. Especially when Elektra has the stats and feats plus her rare ninja mental tricks to give her an edge in a close contest like this.
You kidding? Cassandra Cains is severely underrated on KMC. Jakethebank used to say Cap would beat her easy, and much as I like him, that's an insane statement. Even if one felt Cap beats Cass.
She's a character who ducked and weaved around bullets like a scene out of The Matrix. She left an actual speed trail behind her blitzing thugs in an annual. Broke a giant arsed hole in the side of a prison wall one time, like ten or fifteen times the size of the man she was "rescuing".
My point is, saying Shiva only fought evenly with this beast is no lowball.
Originally posted by cdtm
You kidding? Cassandra Cains is [b]severely underrated on KMC. Jakethebank used to say Cap would beat her easy, and much as I like him, that's an insane statement. Even if one felt Cap beats Cass.She's a character who ducked and weaved around bullets like a scene out of The Matrix. She left an actual speed trail behind her blitzing thugs in an annual. Broke a giant arsed hole in the side of a prison wall one time, like ten or fifteen times the size of the man she was "rescuing".
My point is, saying Shiva only fought evenly with this beast is no lowball. [/B]
This is what happen when you don't read bsdm. I stated that Lady Shiva is treated as unbeatable and stomping everyone, which a poster in this very thread wrote. Elektra alone is very capable of beating her and at the very least it would be a good fight. Also she has better feats.
If you believed that I was lowballing Shiva by stating that Cass was able to stalemate her and really get the better of her at the end of the recent arc, then read again. Cage was stating that Shiva had taken on the batfamily. I basically reminded him that Shiva performed much better in the beginning of that arc than in the end when Cass alone was a match for her.
Anyway Elektra has cut in two a bullet fired from Black Widow at near range.
And kicked down a brick wall, not that I find that really impressive but you mentioned kicking a wall so.
Originally posted by Senor Cage
I've given you feats, so I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.
That's it, very underwhelming. Those feats have already been match with Wolverine, the Serpent Society, and the assassin guild.
So apparently there are no feats that put Shiva above Elektra. They are on the same level with Elektra having more feats and the extra mystic ninja stuff she can use in a jam.
Originally posted by Supermutant
This is what happen when you don't read bsdm. I stated that [b]Lady Shiva is treated as unbeatable and stomping everyone, which a poster in this very thread wrote. Elektra alone is very capable of beating her and at the very least it would be a good fight. Also she has better feats.If you believed that I was lowballing Shiva by stating that Cass was able to stalemate her and really get the better of her at the end of the recent arc, then read again. Cage was stating that Shiva had taken on the batfamily. I basically reminded him that Shiva performed much better in the beginning of that arc than in the end when Cass alone was a match for her.
Anyway Elektra has cut in two a bullet fired from Black Widow at near range.
And kicked down a brick wall, not that I find that really impressive but you mentioned kicking a wall so.
And my point is Cassandra Cain can beat the Bat Family. Her feats and showings are that good..
Shiva stale mating her is a feat for Shiva.
Originally posted by cdtm
And [b]my point is Cassandra Cain can beat the Bat Family. Her feats and showings are that good..Shiva stale mating her is a feat for Shiva. [/B]
Yes she certainly can beat certain members. She can also lose to them as well especially depending on the circumstances. Jason Todd recently had the advantage over her.
Shiva doesn't get her feats though, anymore than Shiva gets Batman's feats. Elektra doesn't get Daredevil or Ironfist feats. So your point doesn't have real meaning here. Elektra would certainly have a more difficult time matching Cass feats than Shiva's.
Shiva may be the most skilled person in this thread but Elektra is no slouch AND she has actual powers. Her respect thread lists some of them. Team Elektra wins.