What differentiates SS "black" from standard SS.
I can see ways that Todd could be Norin, but I'd still say standard SS takes a slight majority. Especially when its stated at "base" and if we assume in character.
The wins Todd can take are for the same reason that SS has lost to the likes of Mephisto etc. Todd's ability to affect the soul for which Norin has no defense. The thing is while its in Todd's powerset its not really his opening move but ost of the time. If Todd was in his evil version (slightly madened by the darkness he sees in others - like when he took onnthe JSA or tore his father and Kyle Raynor apart) then he'd take a slight majority because in this mindset soul attacks pretty much are an opening move (so Standard SS's speed wouldn't come into play)
So depends on how black compares to normal
Thats interesting, in shadow form Todd cant be touched either. Based on what he did to Ian Karkul he can however touch the intangible. That might mean that a percieved advantage SSB believes he has is not in play.
It might be interesting to see them battle for each others soul.
The cosmic energy thing shouldnt matter, when Todd was shielding his father and the older JSA from Kang and the souls from hiroshima (in the JSA Brownestone) Courtney Whitmores cosmic staff amped after absorbing the city grid couldnt penetrate (even while Alan Scot blasted from inside). In the Stargirl/Silver Surfer cross over it was shown her tods energy and Norin's was the same.
I personally think in a battlezone where I'm using Obsidian's powerset I could show Todd taking a majority from SS by operating at his highs and excluding CIS. In a standard fight where CIS is in play and they are acting in character it depends on the motivation
Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
There's literally no way he's harming Black.
surfer doesn't need physical contact to stop him, He can cease the vibrations of his molecules ..
Render him immobile, easily ...like with no stress
Obsidian doesnt have "molecules" to alter the vibration of in shadow form (which he's almost always in, he has to focus to remain in human form. His costume actually doesnt have a mask the black face you see in costume is his shadow form self), so that makes zero sense at all.
He's intangible even to the anti monitors shadow wraiths
https://m.imgur.com/ZMPfl7Q
But even though they cant touch him he can still touch them
https://m.imgur.com/gallery/dnqu56b
Not to mention he can absorb most attacks
https://m.imgur.com/8KXxPn9
Todd can bfr him to the shadow realm.
https://m.imgur.com/rP9yhJv
A place where the worst fears and nightmares of everyone become real
https://m.imgur.com/q9ZSMZP
He can Soul possess
https://m.imgur.com/HV3Kez3
Show him the darkness within him and overwhelm him with it, make him see what he dispises in himself, of have severe night terrors, live out their fears.
https://m.imgur.com/Sb5w3OM
https://m.imgur.com/dkEq8wn
https://m.imgur.com/wi5WO35
https://m.imgur.com/a/KWayU
https://m.imgur.com/x9q42PY
He can attack him with his own shadow.
He can also bend the void of space around him to make the aprea of space he's in no longer exist.
The last is something he's only done twice so not likely.
The first three however he has done pretty often.
FFS Obsidian has a black hole at his core
https://m.imgur.com/sgwRJDM
The notion that he cant do anything to surfer is irrational. In character he wont, though after looking to pull up scans, he uses his soul attack powers out of the gate a lot more often than I remember. So thankyou Alberto , you've convinced me to change my possition. Obsidian takes a slight majority in character as well.
Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvilcancerverse captain marvell hit him in his intangible form and hurt him.
There's literally no way he's harming Black.
surfer doesn't need physical contact to stop him, He can cease the vibrations of his molecules ..
Render him immobile, easily ...like with no stress
Originally posted by beatboks
Obsidian doesnt have "molecules" to alter the vibration of in shadow form (which he's almost always in, he has to focus to remain in human form. His costume actually doesnt have a mask the black face you see in costume is his shadow form self), so that makes zero sense at all.He's intangible even to the anti monitors shadow wraiths
https://m.imgur.com/ZMPfl7Q
But even though they cant touch him he can still touch them
https://m.imgur.com/gallery/dnqu56bNot to mention he can absorb most attacks
https://m.imgur.com/8KXxPn9Todd can bfr him to the shadow realm.
https://m.imgur.com/rP9yhJv
A place where the worst fears and nightmares of everyone become real
https://m.imgur.com/q9ZSMZPHe can Soul possess
https://m.imgur.com/HV3Kez3Show him the darkness within him and overwhelm him with it, make him see what he dispises in himself, of have severe night terrors, live out their fears.
https://m.imgur.com/Sb5w3OM
https://m.imgur.com/dkEq8wn
https://m.imgur.com/wi5WO35
https://m.imgur.com/a/KWayU
https://m.imgur.com/x9q42PYHe can attack him with his own shadow.
He can also bend the void of space around him to make the aprea of space he's in no longer exist.The last is something he's only done twice so not likely.
The first three however he has done pretty often.FFS Obsidian has a black hole at his core
https://m.imgur.com/sgwRJDMThe notion that he cant do anything to surfer is irrational. In character he wont, though after looking to pull up scans, he uses his soul attack powers out of the gate a lot more often than I remember. So thankyou Alberto , you've convinced me to change my possition. Obsidian takes a slight majority in character as well.
I'll address this in a few
WE CAN BZ this if you want cause Obsidian is NOT beating Surfer at all
Originally posted by beatboks
Obsidian doesnt have "molecules" to alter the vibration of in shadow form (which he's almost always in, he has to focus to remain in human form. His costume actually doesnt have a mask the black face you see in costume is his shadow form self), so that makes zero sense at all.He's intangible even to the anti monitors shadow wraiths
https://m.imgur.com/ZMPfl7Q
But even though they cant touch him he can still touch them
https://m.imgur.com/gallery/dnqu56bNot to mention he can absorb most attacks
https://m.imgur.com/8KXxPn9Todd can bfr him to the shadow realm.
https://m.imgur.com/rP9yhJv
A place where the worst fears and nightmares of everyone become real
https://m.imgur.com/q9ZSMZPHe can Soul possess
https://m.imgur.com/HV3Kez3Show him the darkness within him and overwhelm him with it, make him see what he dispises in himself, of have severe night terrors, live out their fears.
https://m.imgur.com/Sb5w3OM
https://m.imgur.com/dkEq8wn
https://m.imgur.com/wi5WO35
https://m.imgur.com/a/KWayU
https://m.imgur.com/x9q42PYHe can attack him with his own shadow.
He can also bend the void of space around him to make the aprea of space he's in no longer exist.The last is something he's only done twice so not likely.
The first three however he has done pretty often.FFS Obsidian has a black hole at his core
https://m.imgur.com/sgwRJDMThe notion that he cant do anything to surfer is irrational. In character he wont, though after looking to pull up scans, he uses his soul attack powers out of the gate a lot more often than I remember. So thankyou Alberto , you've convinced me to change my possition. Obsidian takes a slight majority in character as well.
Being born of the star heart and the shadow void. IF Obsidian utilize part of the star heart's energy , yes he can hit surfer, BUT WE have not see him do that unlike jade, he uses the void's instead.
obsidian doesn't soul posses, what he does is cover people with the void and control them.
He did it to hourman too ..Hourman doesn't have a soul ..Those wouldn't work on surfer.