Originally posted by RobtardI think that was the case at the start of this year, but Biden looks older now, and personality-wise, Bernie is still pretty spry, whereas Biden just seems constantly confused and bewildered by the very existence of words.
😆There's a zero percent chance Biden's picking Sanders. He's older** and more to the left than Biden.
**Though it should be noted they're only a year apart, but Sanders just looks older.
Originally posted by ArtolThey're Democratic Socialists, not Social Democrats. I dislike them both, even if policy-wise, I agree on a number of things with Sanders. Their rhetoric is distinctly socialist, not democratic, and some of their projects such as the Green New Deal are pure madness.
Yeah, I mean I think there are people who actually believe that. Even though Sanders and AOC are really relatively mild pre-Reagan Social Democrats, imo.
AOC is also the one who said "There's a lot of people more concerned about being precisely, factually, and semantically correct than about being morally right," which I think is a terrifying statement.
Originally posted by ArtolThis seems to be turning into a norm in the US and UK; in the last UK election, the Tories won despite being led by the frequently moronic Boris Johnson, not because of him, due to how unappealing the other choice was, and I can see it happening with the Dems this time, too.
Yeah, for sure. I think Biden is going to win now, but no thanks to his doing.
Trump has become more or less inexcusable. I tried with him, I really did, but I have my limits.
Originally posted by BlakemoreI'm not a supporter of the Democrats. I don't align with any political party, and I really don't care who wins this election. I just enjoy speculation and discussion.
Fvck off bernie bros who are pretending to not be....Biden is your best chance dickheads.
Biden is a walking, shambling joke.
Originally posted by Scribble
They're Democratic Socialists, not Social Democrats. I dislike them both, even if policy-wise, I agree on a number of things with Sanders. Their rhetoric is distinctly socialist, not democratic, and some of their projects such as the Green New Deal are pure madness.AOC is also the one who said "There's a lot of people more concerned about being precisely, factually, and semantically correct than about being morally right," which I think is a terrifying statement.
I know they call themselves Democratic Socialists, but I have to say that is a severe misnomer from their policy platform. The constant pointing to Scandinavian "Socialism", which is another form of Social Democracy. I guess we both have different politics, so I'm not sure it's worthwhile to argue about that aspect really.
I haven't heard this quote before, so I don't know the context. I would say you can interpret that charitably or not though. If I were to give it a try, I do think there are some people who are so in love with the appearance of rationality and "facts" that they are blinded to large parts of reality that do not fit into their preconceived notions, since they have already defined themselves as "rational" however, they are unable to question these presumptions, and that is somewhat of a problem. She may have meant something different though.
Originally posted by ArtolAgreed, I've found that line of discussion can be super circular and repetitive most of the time.
I know they call themselves Democratic Socialists, but I have to say that is a severe misnomer from their policy platform. The constant pointing to Scandinavian "Socialism", which is another form of Social Democracy. I guess we both have different politics, so I'm not sure it's worthwhile to argue about that aspect really.I haven't heard this quote before, so I don't know the context. I would say you can interpret that charitably or not though. If I were to give it a try, I do think there are some people who are so in love with the appearance of rationality and "facts" that they are blinded to large parts of reality that do not fit into their preconceived notions, since they have already defined themselves as "rational" however, they are unable to question these presumptions, and that is somewhat of a problem. She may have meant something different though.
I don't have much charity for AOC, after everything I've seen. She comes across as very spoiled and acts like a brat throwing tantrums in congress. To me, she was probably a very empathic and intelligent child who was never challenged and thus never grew up. Most of her rhetoric is basic populism, showbiz and grand statements. She's just a young, female, Democrat Trump, and if she's the future of the Dems then a lot of people are going to check out.
Originally posted by Artol👆
I think a potted plant running against Trump in this climate might win...I wouldn't say Biden is anyone's best shot, he's just there to benefit from a unique situation.
Honestly I just want to see America give universal / socialised healthcare a proper shot. I think slow progress is safe progress, and that cracking important single issues is the best way to go, so I think if the Dems focused on that instead of getting distracted by identity politics, they'd be a lot better off.
But in a more general stance I disagree with the Sanders/AOC types on their increasingly far-left stances regarding borders and immigration so I can't with good conscience support them. It seems that these days, every good policy is wrapped up in so many layers of ideology that it gets tarred with varying brushes.
For example, hard stances on immigration being tarred with the 'fascist' brush, and socialised healthcare being tarred with the 'socialist / communist' brush.
Originally posted by Scribble
Honestly I just want to see America give universal / socialised healthcare a proper shot. I think slow progress is safe progress, and that cracking important single issues is the best way to go, so I think if the Dems focused on that instead of getting distracted by identity politics, they'd be a lot better off.But in a more general stance I disagree with the Sanders/AOC types on their increasingly far-left stances regarding borders and immigration so I can't with good conscience support them. It seems that these days, every good policy is wrapped up in so many layers of ideology that it gets tarred with varying brushes.
For example, hard stances on immigration being tarred with the 'fascist' brush, and socialised healthcare being tarred with the 'socialist / communist' brush.
Totally agree on universal healthcare. It's just a better, more humane, more economically responsible system.
I'm not sure about slow and steady progress, I think too fast is a problem, especially when it comes with social upheaval. But I think the reality we are in is that we've made socially relatively slow progress, and economically we've had massively fast change into a very bad direction (what is generally grouped under the term neo-liberal, whether that's the austerity in Europe, the bank bail outs and dismantling of any social nets in the US, or the much more disadvantageous "free trade deals" pushed on poorer nations. I think we need to move fast to go back to a more sane time economically, and then start making progress from there.
I agree that identity politics is a problematic area for the Democrats. And I think by many liberals it is used to disregard the, imo, much more important intersection of economic inequality. At the same time I do think we need to a) preserve the gains that were made for LGBT people, for women, for black people, generally for any groups that have been structurally marginalized and excluded from equal chances in society and b) continue the fight to achieve acceptance and equality where this is still not done. I do agree with Luc Boltanski, that basically the great defeat of the left in the 60s and 70s was giving some concessions on social aspects, while completely demolishing the economic critique.
I understand the borders issue is a hot button one for many, also for traditionally left leaning voters. I do think we need to achieve a balance between protecting the stability of our countries and helping those humans in desperate need. One of the best aspects to help them is to ensure that they have opportunities and worthwhile lives where they are from (both through structural investment in places like South America, Africa or the Middle East, and by NOT destabilizing these regions as both the US and Europe have sadly done throughout the last 100 years. I have to admit I see a large part in the blame for the refugee crises in our political actions in the West). But once people are coming I also think it is unconscionable to let them drown in the Mediterranean, or to not hear they asylum plea. Asylum generally I believe is one of the fundamental values of Western civilization that I think is deeply important for our cultural character, and I find the rejection of it by some (for example what the US is currently doing) deeply inhumane.
I do agree with your critique of ideological wrappings. I generally think we should be more kind to our fellow human beings regardless of differences in political stance. Nowadays everything is life and death and if you are not with me, you are my mortal enemy.