!!!The Official Dragon Ball vs. Comics Thread!!!

Originally posted by Galan007
Toriyama said it, so that's how it is. Current Broly > current Goku... Which actually gives some credence to Goku's statement in the film that Broly is "probably stronger than Beerus"(because we now know that Beerus is irrefutably still above Goku/Vegeta.)

But Broly being that powerful doesn't mesh with Whis's statement that Goku and Vegeta were the most powerful mortals in U7 as of the start of this arc... unless Whis wasn't counting Broly for whatever reason. /shrug

I thought it was referring to Broly? Hmm, I'll have to go back and rewatch.

You always daydream about big guys with big muscles, Galan.

👆

Originally posted by abhilegend
Toriyama didn't say broly, the interviewer took his name.

A few things worth mentioning, though:

-The interviewer(Victory Uchida) is also one of the main editors of V-Jump and the DBS manga... So at least he isn't just some random joe. His statements should certainly hold some validity/authority(though obviously not to the same extent as Tori or Toyo.)

-Toyotaro didn't question or disagree with Uchida bringing up Broly as one of the beings more powerful than Goku.

-An image of Broly was specifically placed in the video during the segment where they are talking about characters more powerful than Goku:
https://ibb.co/XbXgq6g

That said, as far as irrefutable canon is concerned: Beerus, Whis, and GP are the only being who are undoubtedly above Goku, as they were all explicitly mentioned by Toyotaro himself... Which many of us had assumed anyway, so not much of a shock there.

...But given the above, I'd say it's still very likely that Broly is above Goku as well. That is to say: I won't at all be surprised if/when Broly is irrefutably elevated to that status in future chapters. I don't think it's a coincidence that an editor of the series just happened to name-drop him there. /shrug

Originally posted by Galan007
Just went back and double-checked. You're right. The interviewer is who mentioned Broly's name when Toyotaro was having a hard time coming up with beings more powerful than Goku during the interview. Toyotaro himself only directly mentions Beerus, Whis, and the Grand Priest among those currently above Goku.

A few things worth mentioning, though:

-The interviewer(Victory Uchida) is also one of the main editors of V-Jump and the DBS manga... So at least he isn't just some random joe. His statements should certainly hold some validity/authority(though obviously not to the same extent as Tori or Toyo.)

-Toyotaro didn't question or disagree with Uchida bringing up Broly as one of the beings more powerful than Goku.

-An image of Broly was specifically placed in the video during the segment where they are talking about characters more powerful than Goku:
https://ibb.co/XbXgq6g

That said, as far as irrefutable canon is concerned: Beerus, Whis, and GP are the only being who are undoubtedly above Goku, as they were all explicitly mentioned by Toyotaro himself... Which many of us had assumed anyway, so not much of a shock there.

...But given the above, I'd say it's still very likely that Broly is above Goku as well. That is to say: I won't at all be surprised if/when Broly is irrefutably elevated to that status in future chapters. I don't think it's a coincidence that an editor of the series just happened to name-drop him there. /shrug

Originally posted by abhilegend
Not really, Broly has potential but as of Moro arc Goku is vastly more powerful. Moro was the toughest fighter Goku had fouggt after all.

that doesnt explain it though. is there any proof or was is said before that zenkai scale with their opponents? soo the more powerful the opponent the more power they gain?

I honestly believed that broly is still >>> goku.. but galan did show a panel that whis mentioned goku and vegeta were the strongest in the universe before the granolah wish happened. and now this interview got me confused.

Wonder if Broly is still training. Feel confident that when we see him again, he will be able to fight head on with Goku but as of right now, we don't have proof of that.

Originally posted by carver9
Wonder if Broly is still training. Feel confident that when we see him again, he will be able to fight head on with Goku but as of right now, we don't have proof of that.

DBS:B movie ended with implications that goku off screen sparred with broly right?

Originally posted by 8swords
that doesnt explain it though. is there any proof or was is said before that zenkai scale with their opponents? soo the more powerful the opponent the more power they gain?

Originally posted by abhilegend
Huh? Moro was stronger than Broly and then Goku became so strong that Moro broke his hand punching Goku. Goku>Moro>Broly

i never said he wasnt.. but im asking how do you scale/compare that to when broly also fought gogeta.. or is that non-cannon? honestly curious.. 🙂

He got wrecked by Gogeta, though.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Not really, Broly has potential but as of Moro arc Goku is vastly more powerful. Moro was the toughest fighter Goku had fouggt after all.

So when you factor in the enormous zenkai that Broly would have logically received after his fight with Gogeta, and also consider the possibly that he has been training(possibly with Goku) in the time since the film, him being that powerful would actually align with what we know about his powerset... Even King Vegeta considered Broly to be a "mutant" among Saiyans. /shrug

Originally posted by 8swords
but galan did show a panel that whis mentioned goku and vegeta were the strongest in the universe before the granolah wish happened. and now this interview got me confused.

Originally posted by carver9
Wonder if Broly is still training. Feel confident that when we see him again, he will be able to fight head on with Goku but as of right now, we don't have proof of that.

Honestly just seems like they don't count Broly since he's not really a "manga" character beside some panels. Seems to be along the same lines as Beerus' shifting power levels. I mean we'll see if anything happens in the future but to me it seems like one of those grey areas that happens in mediums where the writer didn't actually write that character before. Blanket statement technically applies but that doesn't mean that character was specifically accounted for or locked in the future. Especially with Toyo who accidentally deletes stories and then forgets all his dialogue just over a week before release. If Broly actually appears in the Manga for an arc or just a current appearance I guess we'd get a better idea of where they hold him, though that causes an issue where his current self might not be congruent with his movie self.

It's also hard to see UI>Blue being above a Base to Blue level powerup too with everything that's happened recently no matter how much Goku trained since then. No matter how wonky the power levels are or are supposed to be, that's a pretty big ****ing gap for Goku to catch up to Gogeta.

I guess just the way things work make me dubious of it, and like comics I want them to specifically bring up Broly in the same breath to show he was thought of (in the writer's mind) before I put him anywhere in the current rankings. One of those things where he's counted under blanket statements and the way the arc is going but also makes me doubt it too due to the nature and context of his appearance. srug

Could be my bias talking too, but meh. Just thinking that Moro is higher is probably the biggest deterrent for me that Broly counts in Manga Blanket statements. Blue Moro Goku > Gogeta and blows off Broly's arm for example.

This series really needs to get rid of the restricted breathing by idk using GOD powers to circumvent it maybe. Maybe if they had huge space battles I could buy the powers increasing at a rate like they did in Z. Or even just job Broly out to put the stamp on it... hope they don't do that lol but would help with visuals.

As always though, Jiren sucks.

Originally posted by carver9
He got wrecked by Gogeta, though.

Gogeta was clearly the superior fighter, which makes sense given that Broly didn't have much fighting technique/experience at all(he'd only ever sparred with Paragus before that, ffs)... But as Vegeta noted: Broly was rapidly learning on the fly.

At any rate, Broly was an absolute tank. Gogeta landed far more strikes/attacks, but Broly soaked them all and just kept getting more powerful the entire time. As I mentioned above: the only attack from Gogeta that would have put Broly down was his "full force" Kamehameha -- indicating that it required SSB Gogeta's most powerful attack to defeat Broly by the end.

This is absolutely absurd, given that like ~2 hours before that, Broly was weaker than base Vegeta... His retarded power-creep eclipses all.

Originally posted by One Big Mob
It's also hard to see UI>Blue being above a Base to Blue level powerup too with everything that's happened recently no matter how much Goku trained since then. No matter how wonky the power levels are or are supposed to be, that's a pretty big ****ing gap for Goku to catch up to Gogeta.

As of the Broly film you could argue that BASE Gogeta ~ SSB Goku. So if you stick to canon multipliers, then:
SS1 Gogeta = 50x SSB Goku.
A theoretical SS2 Gogeta = 100x SSB Goku.
A theoretical SS3 Gogeta = 400x SSB Goku.

There's no canon multiplier for SSG, but we know it is many, many times more powerful than SS3, given Goku's showings against Beerus in those forms... But for the purposes of this discussion, lets lowball tremendously and assume that SSG is only 2x SS3.

That leaves us with a theoretical SSG Gogeta at 800x SSB Goku.

There is also no canon multiplier for SSB, but early in the manga it was sorta/kinda indicated that SSB is 10x SSG(and that was when they were still in their n00b-SSB states.) So if we stick to that, then SSB Gogeta = 8,000x SSB Goku... And I feel like that's probably still a lower-end figure, with FPSS Broly being very close to that level.

So yeah, MUI or not, it is indeed hard to think that Goku's power has increased thousands upon thousands of times over between the Broly and Moro arcs, to the point where he has transcended SSB Gogeta.

Not out of the question, I suppose, but still...

Good post 👆

So Gogeta is > Beerus?

Originally posted by cdtm
So Gogeta is > Beerus?

...But I'm really not comfortable putting anyone this side of Whis above Beerus at this point. Because it's clear that Toriyama just wants to keep Beerus above Goku and Vegeta, no matter how powerful they become... With no real 'cap' in sight.