Originally posted by carver9If Goku is out for the kill immediately at the onset, then yeah, it'd probably take a herald-class character to beat him, even in that era... Barring, perhaps, a few potential lower-end haxx outliers, like Ambrose(as DS mentioned.)
I agree with this. In this situation though (not saying you're saying anything different than what I am about to say, Galan), Goku is trying to take whomever out, quickly.
Originally posted by Galan007
If Goku is out for the kill immediately at the onset, then yeah, it'd probably take a herald-class character to beat him, even in that era... Barring, perhaps, a few potential lower-end haxx outliers, like Ambrose(as DS mentioned.)
Yeah, there's a small list of lower tier haxx guys. Fantomex being another potential, just because his misdirection is so vague (which tbh, I kinda like).
Yep.
And that just comes down to whether or not pre-Z Goku could blitz them before they could activate their abilities -- his combat speed was pretty ridiculous, even in that era.
That said, I'm not exactly confident that Goku could do so against Ambrose. Not sure about Fantomex, though, as I don't know much about his perception/reaction speed.
Originally posted by Galan007
Yep.And that just comes down to whether or not pre-Z Goku could blitz them before they could activate their abilities -- his combat speed was pretty ridiculous, even in that era.
That said, I'm not exactly confident that Goku could do so against Ambrose. Not sure about Fantomex, though, as I don't know much about his perception/reaction speed.
From what I could tell, it's difficult because writers never make it clear *when* his misdirection starts - so there's no windup time or anything like that.
He'd be fighting someone, that someone stabs him in the head.....then it's all revealed to be an illusion and he just stabbed his friend in the head. But at no point does the writer (usually Remender) make clear when it starts, for all we know Fantomex had the entire fight as an illusion, or midway through, or activated it at the start (or even if it needs activation).
Originally posted by carver9
He would still get sensed and a missed attack from Goku, landing anywhere on the battlefield would probably kill him anyways.
What are his best feats, and how does it stack against say Prof X/Jean with Phoenix/Jamie Braddock (who was amped)?
Edit: it took Jamie warping reality just to break the misdirection
Dark, I'm guessing you're thinking of this ft on why Amb would win?
https://m.imgur.com/zyRcVDm
https://m.imgur.com/iBGFOTb
https://m.imgur.com/0je2FkF
Originally posted by carver9
Dark, I'm guessing you're thinking of this ft on why Amb would win?https://m.imgur.com/zyRcVDm
https://m.imgur.com/iBGFOTb
https://m.imgur.com/0je2FkF
I didn't think that was canon (I know it's meant to be non canon to Supes but canon to Planetary or something like that), but I disregard it just in general, because it's Elseworlds.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
What are his best feats, and how does it stack against say Prof X/Jean with Phoenix/Jamie Braddock (who was amped)?Edit: it took Jamie warping reality just to break the misdirection
Wouldn't this be a different scenario though? The telepaths are mentally looking for a target whereas Goku is sensing your presence. Your entire body, basically. The energy within you.
Originally posted by carver9But you specified pre-Z Goku, though.
He would still get sensed and a missed attack from Goku, landing anywhere on the battlefield would probably kill him anyways.
At that point he wasn't precisely sensing ki from planetary++ distances... His ki sense was still quite n00bish at the time, iirc.
Originally posted by Galan007
But you specified pre-Z Goku, though.At that point he wasn't precisely sensing ki from planetary++ distances... His ki sense was still quite n00bish at the time, iirc.
Wouldn't say planetary plus but he was able to sense within the area he was fighting in. That was one of the training methods Popo taught him. Remember, the starting distance is only 10 ft.
How would Fantomex take Goku out though? Bullets doesn't work on him and the guy tanked a blast more powerful than anyone Fantom have fought. Also, a missed attack from Goku could level the entire area they are fighting in and I feel confident he can not withstand the backlash from the attack. I thought Fantomex powers had to be activated? Is it always active?
Originally posted by carver9
How would Fantomex take Goku out though? Bullets doesn't work on him and the guy tanked a blast more powerful than anyone Fantom have fought. Also, a missed attack from Goku could level the entire area they are fighting in and I feel confident he can not withstand the backlash from the attack. I thought Fantomex powers had to be activated? Is it always active?
Darksaint