!!!The Official Dragon Ball vs. Comics Thread!!!

Originally posted by Galan007
No, they aren't close at all. Jiren-level power has been eclipsed by many orders of magnitude in the manga.

For example, Goku confirmed that Moro-73 was the strongest opponent he'd ever faced up to that point:
https://ibb.co/bBjPb4J
...Which automatically puts Moro decisively above the likes of Broly and Jiren.

That said, Goku was able to completely no-sell Moro's attacks, and defeat him with almost no effort:

...And that was several arcs ago. The Saiyans' powers have increased exponentially since then.

As far as villains are concerned, the scaling would be something like:
Black Freeza > Gas > Granolah > Angel-Moro > Moro-73 > Broly ~ Cell Max > Jiren... With each '>' potentially representing a difference of several tiers.

*Current Goku/Vegeta/Gohan would fall somewhere in the Gas/Granolah range. As such, any one of them could one-shot Jiren with a zero-diff backhand.

tl;dr
Vegeta still respects Jiren, for the same basic reason Goku still respects Roshi and King Kai. As mentioned, valuable lessons can still be learned from weaker opponents.

Because this so-called "relaxed state" is a huge thing now.

No wonder Vegeta is interested in exploring it - switching between SSJG and SSJB served him well, for example.

Originally posted by DeadpoolXXX
makes sense, but again if vegeta has already surpassed jiren, then why is he still trying to reach jirens level?

Vegeta isn't trying to reach Jiren's level, anymore than Goku is trying to reach Roshi's level. ToP Jiren is literally nothing to them now.

Vegeta simply realized why Jiren was so far beyond them at the time, despite having a relatively similar powerlevel... And it comes down to Jiren being able to actualize the full extent of his power via strenuous meditation(ie. deeply honing his existing abilities.) So Vegeta reckons that if he can learn the same ability, he will be able to completely maximize his current power, thereby making him a far more efficient fighter(which would obviously be important against someone like Black Freeza.)

Like I said earlier: Roshi's demonstration during the ToP gave Goku the final revelation/lesson/push he needed to initially activate UI... But this does not mean Roshi is on Goku's level. IOW, just because the Saiyans have [vastly] surpassed someone, doesn't mean they still can't learn from them.

i still don't get how meditation can make you more powerful, but i digress.

Originally posted by DeadpoolXXX
i still don't get how meditation can make you more powerful, but i digress.

https://dragonball.fandom.com/wiki/Relaxed_State

... or just read what Vegeta says on panel 😛

Yeah, growing more powerful via meditation has been a thing in DB for a long time. Look at Image Training, for example.

image training also doesn't make sense to me.

okay, so you can get more powerful just by IMAGINING how a fight would go with someone else? wtf?

Originally posted by DeadpoolXXX
image training also doesn't make sense to me.

okay, so you can get more powerful just by IMAGINING how a fight would go with someone else? wtf?

I just glanced over the article though. I heard about image training is a thing in RL because I saw people say it's a thing in RL when I was reading Baki manga

Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
I heard it actually has some basis in RL
https://www.outsideonline.com/health/training-performance/strength-training-running-injury-prevention/

I just glanced over the article though. I heard about image training is a thing in RL because I saw people say it's a thing in RL when I was reading Baki manga

Originally posted by DeadpoolXXX
image training also doesn't make sense to me.

okay, so you can get more powerful just by IMAGINING how a fight would go with someone else? wtf?

You really, really need to stop applying the real life logic to this shōnen about supernatural ki-based martial artists who make Superman look like a fucking pussy 😂

And while we use ABC logic often when it comes to the power scaling, there are some exceptions and techniques mastered or special powers possessed only by few... Shenron and Zeno are no fighters, for example.

Originally posted by DeadpoolXXX
image training also doesn't make sense to me.

okay, so you can get more powerful just by IMAGINING how a fight would go with someone else? wtf?

It's how H1 and Carver are such legendary debaters - they've pretty much imagined how every single debate they've ever had has gone.

😂 😂 😂

Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
Don't know why but I posted the wrong link 😮
https://www.outsideonline.com/health/training-performance/imaginary-strength-training-research/

Hey, good find 👆

Also, keep in mind DB is a universe filled with ridiculously powerful martial artists whose exotic techniques and mastery over Ki in general are simply off charts.

Mental training, mental tricks and even mental duels are not uncommon - we don't even need to limit ourselves to anime/manga if we want to discuss such showings:

Originally posted by DeadpoolXXX
image training also doesn't make sense to me.

okay, so you can get more powerful just by IMAGINING how a fight would go with someone else? wtf?

But yes, Image Training/meditation can allow for massive growth -- that's how Freeza became exponentially more powerful while he was trapped in Hell, for example.

And honestly, that sort of thing shouldn't even be on your radar if we are talking about irrational shit that happens in DB.

black frieza vs ssjb gogeta (from the broly movie)

who wins?

As of right now, isn't Beerus the only being more powerful than Frieza right now (excluding Angels)?

Originally posted by carver9
As of right now, isn't Beerus the only being more powerful than Frieza right now (excluding Angels)?

As for Black Freeza vs. SSB Gogeta:
You could make a very strong argument that MUI Goku(Moro arc) had already surpassed SSB Gogeta(Broly arc) by a huge margin.

That said, Black Freeza stomps with almost no effort.

Yeah, that's the way I see it as well. Goku said Moro was the most powerful being he's faced and brushed off his attacks like he was nothing. Gogeta had to use his ultimate attack to take out Broly who is significantly weaker than Moro, who again was brushed off by Goku. Frieza took out a more powerful version of that Goku with a single hit. Gogeta doesn't stand a chance.

Originally posted by carver9
Yeah, that's the way I see it as well. Goku said Moro was the most powerful being he's faced and brushed off his attacks like he was nothing. Gogeta had to use his ultimate attack to take out Broly who is significantly weaker than Moro, who again was brushed off by Goku. Frieza took out a more powerful version of that Goku with a single hit. Gogeta doesn't stand a chance.

Per Goku, Moro-73 was the strongest opponent he had ever faced up to that point(ie. Moro-73 > Broly), and MUI Goku rape-stomped him with almost no effort whatsoever -- hell, Moro's hand literally snapped on impact when he attacked MUI Goku. Flip side, Broly(a weaker opponent) soaked everything that Gogeta dished out, and only became more powerful the entire time. So far as we know, it would have required SSB Gogeta's most powerful attack just to definitively put Broly down... Whereas it obviously did not require MUI Goku's most powerful attack to put Moro down.

Based on that, we can logically conclude: MUI Goku(Moro arc) > Moro-73 ~/> SSB Gogeta > Broly.

...And that was several arc ago. The Saiyans' powers have increased exponentially since then, yet Black Freeza casually one-pieced both of them at the same time. This would honestly be a non-fight in Freeza's favor.

When Zeno said "all of existence, go away", did he destroy that entire timeline or just the universe?

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