This is honestly the best speed showing in the entire series of DBS (45 seconds). Black from that distance speed blitzing at Vegeta like that without Vegeta even seeing him move is far above anything that happened in the show based off how freaking fast these characters are and how well they can visually keep up with super speed movements (and Vegeta being blue hair). I'm surprised people never acknowledged the raw speed here...
/Mw5jbjsMZks?si=_XmkG6JVe6Vrsslx
Originally posted by DeadpoolXXXNo. ToP Jiren's power was already surpassed during the Broly arc, and has dwindled into utter insignificance by this point in the manga -- he'd be an insect compared to current Goku/Gohan/Vegeta(and possibly even Orange Piccolo.)
so vegeta still uses jiren as a sort of benchmark in the manga. that's why vegeta was meditating and learning to gain more control over his power. so does that mean jiren (like beerus) is something of a moving goalpost in the manga, and his power is still very much relevent?
Vegeta simply understands why Jiren's actualized power was so immense(despite his raw powerlevel being relatively similar to he and Goku's at the time), and is now trying to apply the same methods to his current state. It's really no different than Goku finally realizing how to activate UI, after watching Roshi use a faux-version of it during the ToP. IOW, lessons can still be learned from weaker opponents.
This is nothing like the true moving goalpost that is Beerus, who is still definitively at the #1 spot for no reason at all.
Originally posted by DeadpoolXXXGohan is basically the Anakin Skywalker of DB -- unlimited potential, and all that.
and also, why the **** is gohan so powerful? kid never trains then BAM he's god tier. wtf?
No matter how weak he seems to be, all Gohan needs is one good rage-moment to slingshot himself back into relevancy.
^ At least Piccolo got a big upgrade too - he actually deserved one...
Originally posted by Galan007
Vegeta simply understands why Jiren's actualized power was so immense(despite his raw powerlevel being relatively similar to he and Goku's at the time), and is now trying to apply the same methods to his current state. It's really no different than Goku finally realizing how to activate UI, after watching Roshi use a faux-version of it during the ToP. IOW, lessons can still be learned from weaker opponents.
👆
Originally posted by carver9
This is honestly the best speed showing in the entire series of DBS (45 seconds). Black from that distance speed blitzing at Vegeta like that without Vegeta even seeing him move is far above anything that happened in the show based off how freaking fast these characters are and how well they can visually keep up with super speed movements (and Vegeta being blue hair). I'm surprised people never acknowledged the raw speed here.../Mw5jbjsMZks?si=_XmkG6JVe6Vrsslx
Mocking Carv aside, this could be seen as a huge feat for Black if we remember how Base Vegeta (still at his Buu Saga power level, approximately) was able to watch the fight of SSJG Goku and Beerus at the beginning of DBS.
Originally posted by Galan007dunno, just the way vegeta still seems to admire jiren makes me think they might be closer then you think.
No. ToP Jiren's power was already surpassed during the Broly arc, and has dwindled into utter insignificance by this point in the manga -- he'd be an insect compared to current Goku/Gohan/Vegeta(and possibly even Orange Piccolo.)Vegeta simply understands why Jiren's actualized power was so immense(despite his raw powerlevel being relatively similar to he and Goku's at the time), and is now trying to apply the same methods to his current state. It's really no different than Goku finally realizing how to activate UI, after watching Roshi use a faux-version of it during the ToP. IOW, lessons can still be learned from weaker opponents.
This is nothing like the true moving goalpost that is Beerus, who is still definitively at the #1 spot for no reason at all.
Originally posted by StiltmanFTWseems like vegeta was underestimating goku black in that scene. like he thought black was still going to be at his weaker level, so got caught off guard when he was actually way more powerful.
Mocking Carv aside, this could be seen as a huge feat for Black if we remember how Base Vegeta (still at his Buu Saga power level, approximately) was able to watch the fight of SSJG Goku and Beerus at the beginning of DBS.
Originally posted by DeadpoolXXXNo, they aren't close at all. Jiren-level power has been eclipsed by many orders of magnitude in the manga.
dunno, just the way vegeta still seems to admire jiren makes me think they might be closer then you think.
For example, Goku confirmed that Moro-73 was the strongest opponent he'd ever faced up to that point:
https://ibb.co/bBjPb4J
...Which automatically puts Moro decisively above the likes of Broly and Jiren.
That said, Goku was able to completely no-sell Moro's attacks, and defeat him with almost no effort:
...And that was several arcs ago. The Saiyans' powers have increased exponentially since then.
As far as villains are concerned, the scaling would be something like:
Black Freeza > Gas > Granolah > Angel-Moro > Moro-73 > Broly ~ Cell Max > Jiren... With each '>' potentially representing a difference of several tiers.
*Current Goku/Vegeta/Gohan would fall somewhere in the Gas/Granolah range. As such, any one of them could one-shot Jiren with a zero-diff backhand.
tl;dr
Vegeta still respects Jiren, for the same basic reason Goku still respects Roshi and King Kai. As mentioned, valuable lessons can still be learned from weaker opponents.