Originally posted by carver9
How would the Justice League defend against this?
Can we all agree that this attack from Buu is more powerful than Cell Solar system buster?
Originally posted by carver9
How would the Justice League defend against this?
Can we all agree that this attack from Buu is more powerful than Cell Solar system buster?
Originally posted by Galan007
If a no PIS/CIS stip were in there, then yeah, I suppose it's possible.Though I am curious what route you think the JL would take to drop Boo before he could launch an earth-buster or somesuch?
Why does he need to charge anything tho? SPC was the baseline SS buster, Buu arc ssj2 Goku and Vegeta are above him, and kid Buu is on ssj3 tier in terms of power (if not even above).
He DOES NOT need to charge anything to hit the planet with the potency of an SS buster. His PL would be AT LEAST 4X that of cell (ssj2-ssj3 gap, assuming ssj2 Goku tier = SPC). And with DBZ, destructive capability isn't linear with PL, small increases in PL can lead to massive increase in actual power.
So at the very least, he could toss an SS buster tier AP with roughly <1/4 of his power, about <25% of his power. That's basically a simple ki blast for him, no charge time required.
Only reason he actually charged against Goku and Vegeta was because they actually had the power to stop his attacks at such low percentages
Originally posted by Genii96
Why does he need to charge anything tho? SPC was the baseline SS buster, Buu arc ssj2 Goku and Vegeta are above him, and kid Buu is on ssj3 tier in terms of power (if not even above).He DOES NOT need to charge anything to hit the planet with the potency of an SS buster. His PL would be AT LEAST 4X that of cell (ssj2-ssj3 gap, assuming ssj2 Goku tier = SPC). And with DBZ, destructive capability isn't linear with PL, small increases in PL can lead to massive increase in actual power.
So at the very least, he could toss an SS buster tier AP with roughly <1/4 of his power, about <25% of his power. That's basically a simple ki blast for him, no charge time required.
Only reason he actually charged against Goku and Vegeta was because they actually had the power to stop his attacks at such low percentages
Because the initial comment made was ' What can the JL do against this attack [insert video of Planet Burst]?'
So the discussion stemmed from there.
I mean it's like me coming in and saying well what can KidBuu do against infinite Wally time travelling clones who all speed steal?
Hate to be the one to piss on the parade, but Dragon Ball characters aren't necessarily durable enough to survive planet destroying attacks. Characters with regeneration can however recover from it.
Vegeta's Final Flash was supposedly going to destroy the Earth, and tore off half of Cell's body.
And if that wasn't clear enough, Trunks specifies that Vegeta made the beam smaller. Which implies that it contained less than enough power to destroy the planet. Which makes sense, because the planet didn't blow up.
But the only reason Cell survived was because he was able to regenerate from it.
We has a similar circumstance repeated in Goku's battle against Cell.
Goku powers up a Kamehameha powerful enough to blow up the planet.
Piccolo verifies that it's a full power Kamehameha.
Krillin confirms that it would blow up the planet.
And Cell, once again had to rely on his regeneration to recover.
Someone may argue that Frieza survived the explosion of Namek. But he was a speck on the planet's surface, and consequently only subjected to a negligible fraction of the energies that destroyed the planet. Whereas the Final Flash and the Kamehameha are planet destroyers concentrated into a beam.
And while the Dragon Ball characters can produce enough energy to blow up a planet, they can't survive a direct hit from such a blast.
Yeesh.
Are people still trying to use collateral damage alone to quantify attack strength/potency in DB?
By that logic, Vegeta's Final Flash against Cell was no more powerful than his Galick Gun during the Saiyan saga.
Originally posted by Galan007
👆Another example is when Freeza destroyed the earth during RoF, and was then stated to have survived the kablooey:
https://i.imgur.com/vTqlKxe.jpg
*cut to*
Whis rewinds time, and Goku kills Freeza with an energy blast that 'only' produced...I dunno...the collateral damage of a small missile?
But given that Freeza had survived planetary destruction just before that, we know the potency of Goku's blast MUST have been >>> planet-level by default(collateral damage be damned.)
Showings like that are why we can assume the strength of various blasts in DB, even when there is very minor collateral damage produced by the attack(s) in question... Like Raditz no-selling what was logically a moon-buster from Piccolo, for instance.
Originally posted by Galan007
Yeesh.Are people still trying to use collateral damage alone to quantify attack strength/potency in DB?
Compare it to Vegeta's regular assault on Cell which didn't even faze him.
Originally posted by Galan007
By that logic, Vegeta's Final Flash against Cell was no more powerful than his Galick Gun during the Saiyan saga.
Vegeta didn't train to destroy bigger planets, he trained to be an effective fighter. Point in case Ultra Super Saiyan 2 Trunks. He had a higher Power Level than Cell, but he couldn't lay a finger on him.
Originally posted by Astner
Hate to be the one to piss on the parade, but Dragon Ball characters aren't necessarily durable enough to survive planet destroying attacks. Characters with regeneration can however recover from it.Vegeta's Final Flash was supposedly going to destroy the Earth, and tore off half of Cell's body.
And if that wasn't clear enough, Trunks specifies that Vegeta made the beam smaller. Which implies that it contained less than enough power to destroy the planet. Which makes sense, because the planet didn't blow up.
But the only reason Cell survived was because he was able to regenerate from it.
We has a similar circumstance repeated in Goku's battle against Cell.
Goku powers up a Kamehameha powerful enough to blow up the planet.
Piccolo verifies that it's a full power Kamehameha.
Krillin confirms that it would blow up the planet.
And Cell, once again had to rely on his regeneration to recover.
Someone may argue that Frieza survived the explosion of Namek. But he was a speck on the planet's surface, and consequently only subjected to a negligible fraction of the energies that destroyed the planet. Whereas the Final Flash and the Kamehameha are planet destroyers concentrated into a beam.
And while the Dragon Ball characters can produce enough energy to blow up a planet, they can't survive a direct hit from such a blast.
TBH, The only two characters I've SEEN survive a Planet being destroyed was Frieza and Buu. He was already half dead by the time it exploded so it's safe to say he's durable enough. That being said most of them are durable enough to withstand Planet busting attacks at this point
Originally posted by Astner
Hate to be the one to piss on the parade, but Dragon Ball characters aren't necessarily durable enough to survive planet destroying attacks. Characters with regeneration can however recover from it.Vegeta's Final Flash was supposedly going to destroy the Earth, and tore off half of Cell's body.
And if that wasn't clear enough, Trunks specifies that Vegeta made the beam smaller. Which implies that it contained less than enough power to destroy the planet. Which makes sense, because the planet didn't blow up.
But the only reason Cell survived was because he was able to regenerate from it.
We has a similar circumstance repeated in Goku's battle against Cell.
Goku powers up a Kamehameha powerful enough to blow up the planet.
Piccolo verifies that it's a full power Kamehameha.
Krillin confirms that it would blow up the planet.
And Cell, once again had to rely on his regeneration to recover.
Someone may argue that Frieza survived the explosion of Namek. But he was a speck on the planet's surface, and consequently only subjected to a negligible fraction of the energies that destroyed the planet. Whereas the Final Flash and the Kamehameha are planet destroyers concentrated into a beam.
And while the Dragon Ball characters can produce enough energy to blow up a planet, they can't survive a direct hit from such a blast.
I mean which comic character himself tanks a concentrated planet destroying attack like that if you want to talk about it?
Originally posted by carver9
Collateral damage doesn't equal power output. Its like saying first form frieza could kill Cell. Hell, let's make this worse. Saiyan Saga Vegeta could kill Cell. No one should believe this.
If Cell wanted Frieza to kill him, I think Freiza would be able to kill him.
But in an actual fight Frieza would have no chance.
Originally posted by Astner
Why not?If Cell wanted Frieza to kill him, I think Freiza would be able to kill him.
But in an actual fight Frieza would have no chance.
So if Saiyan Saga Vegeta planet destroying blast hit Cell, a Cell that is ready, he could hurt him the same way Super Saiyan Vegeta damaged him? Think about it for a second.
Originally posted by AstnerSo your contention is that ASS Vegeta, who was literally hundreds of millions of times more powerful than he was during the Saiyan saga, reduced the PL of his blast down to Saiyan saga levels... And then it still managed to injure Cell? Lol, that's an... Interesting opinion, because typically weaker attacks have zero effect on more powerful characters(I can provide numerous scans showcasing this, if you'd like..?)
Yes. Because there's a clear emphasis in these two particular scenes that these two attacks (that would destroy the planet) delivered blows outside of their weight class.Compare it to Vegeta's regular assault on Cell which didn't even faze him.
It could well be the case. Because the upper bound of their power output doesn't seem to change past that point.
Vegeta didn't train to destroy bigger planets, he trained to be an effective fighter. Point in case Ultra Super Saiyan 2 Trunks. He had a higher Power Level than Cell, but he couldn't lay a finger on him.
Also, you do realize that the collateral damage generated by a blast in DB isn't at all indicative of the blast's potency, right? So even IF Vegeta's Final Flash would have 'only' destroyed the earth, it doesn't mean the blast itself 'only' contained planet-busting energy. That's just how it works in DB.
Case in point:
Originally posted by Galan007
👆Another example is when Freeza destroyed the earth during RoF, and was then stated to have survived the kablooey:
https://i.imgur.com/vTqlKxe.jpg
*cut to*
Whis rewinds time, and Goku kills Freeza with an energy blast that 'only' produced...I dunno...the collateral damage of a small missile?
But given that Freeza had survived planetary destruction just before that, we know the potency of Goku's blast MUST have been >>> planet-level by default(collateral damage be damned.)
Showings like that are why we can assume the strength of various blasts in DB, even when there is very minor collateral damage produced by the attack(s) in question... Like Raditz no-selling what was logically a moon-buster from Piccolo, for instance.
tl;dr
SSB Goku's Kamehameha only produced missile-level collateral damage, but we know that its potency was still FAR beyond planetary, given that Freeza had endured the destruction of the earth itself moments beforehand.
The Z fighters are really only concerned about the earth's safety, so of course they're always going to highlight when the earth is in jeopardy... But pretending like Vegeta's Final Flash and Goku's Warp Kamehameha were only equal to Vegeta's Galick Gun during the Saiyan saga...simply because the earth could have been wiped out by all of them...seems like a massive lowball.
